[TruthSetsFree]

Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj

In other words, you believe in a petty God who doesn't really judge by evils, but rather getting water dumped on one's head. So an atheist will be damned over Hitler?

That is absolute garbage.

I don't believe in your god. Sorry. In fact, if such a being operates that way, then they are not God, just a conflicted, malevolent, unfair, self-absorbed, malignant waste of celestial space. I think people who even choose to believe in such a god simply have something fundamentally fried in their mental capacities.
What a joke. And you have the nerve to tell me to get saved and sit on some imaginary high horse,.
Get a grip, fool.

u claim to be a Christian... well, maybe you are a wanna be or something... but the Word says not to call anyone a fool...

Jesus called pepole that but he was/is GOD

in any case, about baptism

if you believe the Word

in St John 3 it says that "baptism now saves you"

you may want to do some homework b4 answering posts...

[TruthSetsFree]

Originally Posted by Traditio

The Protestant notion that we somehow "get" saved and "have" salvation regardless of what we do...that's a notion that, so far as I can see, is pretty much absent from the Fathers of the Church.

pretty much????

i would agree w/ this post if it weren't for those 2 words

[TruthSetsFree]

Originally Posted by Damian

You have taken the verse out of context. God is actually doing the work, not the believer.

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [his] good pleasure." Philippians 2:12-13

this is all i read

God does not work in anyone who is sinning... unless the person is TRYING, fighting his sinfulness... those who believe in eternal security have no reason to fight their sin.

part of the definition of sinning is going against God... hardly matters, in some sense... whether it is intentional or otherwise... meaning it hardly matters as far as the consequences to the soul.. What matters is repentance...

OSAS is like saying "I love you" while you stab someone...

[Sum1sGruj]

Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree

u claim to be a Christian... well, maybe you are a wanna be or something... but the Word says not to call anyone a fool...

Jesus called pepole that but he was/is GOD

in any case, about baptism

if you believe the Word

in St John 3 it says that "baptism now saves you"

you may want to do some homework b4 answering posts...

You may want to believe in a rational God before calling yourself rational.

If you believe that Hitler is saved but an atheist isn't, then you are full of dead bones. Your interpretation is phony.

And why can't I call someone a fool? Thought I was saved, right? So I can do whatever I want.
That is your logic, not mine.

I would suggest that you and others like you stop peddling such dangerous lies. The Bible is clear that only the righteous receive grace. I am not going to throw a hundred verses at you while you hold on to your cherry picked nonsense.

Your church disagrees with you, Roman. And so does common sense, the Bible, and Holy God.

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by Traditio

The Protestant notion that we somehow "get" saved and "have" salvation regardless of what we do...that's a notion that, so far as I can see, is pretty much absent from the Fathers of the Church.

How does that refute what you were shown here on TOL many times? That salvation is an event. If by fathers you mean apostles, I agree. You will find Peter, James, Jude, Hebrews....looking forward to salvation.

Yet Paul is looking back on it.

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj

In other words, you believe in a petty God who doesn't really judge by evils, but rather getting water dumped on one's head. So an atheist will be damned over Hitler?

That is absolute garbage.

I don't believe in your god. Sorry. In fact, if such a being operates that way, then they are not God, just a conflicted, malevolent, unfair, self-absorbed, malignant waste of celestial space. I think people who even choose to believe in such a god simply have something fundamentally fried in their mental capacities.
What a joke. And you have the nerve to tell me to get saved and sit on some imaginary high horse,.
Get a grip, fool.

Your the idiot that keeps equating salvation with water baptism... I never said such a thing


God did judge... He poured that judgement on Christ at the cross. Why do you deny this?

[Damian]

Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree

this is all i read

I will now give you another opportunity to read the rest of my previous post because it is spot on.

To reiterate: What needs to be "worked out" is our fear. It is only by "casting out fear" that we are made "perfect in love." That's salvation.

"God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love." 1 John 4:16-18

"Where fear has gone there love must come, because there are but these alternatives. Where one appears, the other disappears. And which you share becomes the only one you have." - A Course in Miracles

Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree

God does not work in anyone who is sinning... unless the person is TRYING, fighting his sinfulness... those who believe in eternal security have no reason to fight their sin.

Paul said that no one can resist God's will (Romans 9:19)

"God's Will is one, not many. It has no opposition, for there is none beside it." - A Course in Miracles

[Angel4Truth]

Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree

Not all that God wants for us is found in Scirpture, explicitly or otherwise. The Church preceded Scripture (New T) and produced the NT... in the 300s. It is dangerous to go by scripture alone... After all, was there no Church b4 the printing press was invented in 1440 (when books became more easily accessible/ affordabble?) The Bible as we know is a fairly modern phenomenon, which is why the Church chained the Bible to the podium @ the Church... couldn' afford to have it stolen... (though ignorant peoiple will tell u another story... geez... whatever...)

That being said, there is PLENTY of scirpture that tells us we are NOT saved by faith alone... James 2:12 is probably the most clear, but there are many others. i have read the entire Bible and certain books i have read over and over.. heard over and over also... at daily Mass. If u attend daily Mass for 3 yrs you will hear something like 80% of the Bible, the most "important" parts...



have u forgotten waht comes after that psg you quote?

something like this

"Does that mean we can sin? God forbid!"

if someone gave u a gift but then you "lost it"

that does not mean it was earned in the 1st place, doesn't make it any less a gift...

and one can get a gift back that has been lost once he repents and makes, as the RCC calls it "a firm purpose of amendment"

This is false, you admit you do not earn it and its a gift, well He keeps it for us too, we dont keep it. Jude 1:24

Can we snatch it from His hand to lose it? John 10:28

So if we dont earn it, and He is who keeps it in us, we cannot lose it, since we didnt earn it or keep it, He does it all.

By acting as if one can be saved, lose it then be saved again is doing this (Spoken rhetorically since it CANNOT happen) The reason its impossible to do it again, is because it was already finished for all time. By not trusting in it, one is putting Him to open shame, like the Hebrews were, after trusting Christ for salvation, then going back to sacrificing animals for sins, shaming the work of Christ on the cross.

Hebrews 6:6

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by Traditio

The Protestant notion that we somehow "get" saved and "have" salvation regardless of what we do...that's a notion that, so far as I can see, is pretty much absent from the Fathers of the Church.

But it isn't absent from the Bible.

Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree

Not all that God wants for us is found in Scirpture, explicitly or otherwise. The Church preceded Scripture (New T) and produced the NT... in the 300s. It is dangerous to go by scripture alone... After all, was there no Church b4 the printing press was invented in 1440 (when books became more easily accessible/ affordabble?) The Bible as we know is a fairly modern phenomenon, which is why the Church chained the Bible to the podium @ the Church... couldn' afford to have it stolen... (though ignorant peoiple will tell u another story... geez... whatever...)

Nice cop out.

You pathetic coward.

I gave you the verses that disprove your statement. The Bible explicitly states that when sin abounds grace abounds more. That is a complete contradiction of your statement, which you admit isn't in the Bible.

You fail.

That being said, there is PLENTY of scirpture that tells us we are NOT saved by faith alone... James 2:12 is probably the most clear, but there are many others. i have read the entire Bible and certain books i have read over and over.. heard over and over also... at daily Mass. If u attend daily Mass for 3 yrs you will hear something like 80% of the Bible, the most "important" parts...

Do you have any idea why James 2 says those things? Are you clueless that Paul contradicts those statements in James? Have you no understanding of changing of the rules?

have u forgotten waht comes after that psg you quote?

something like this

"Does that mean we can sin? God forbid!"

Did you forget what comes after that?

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
-Romans 6:1-2

We are dead to sin. We cannot live in sin.

And yet this is all irrelevant, because Romans 6:1 is merely an exhortation to not try and take advantage of grace, because doing so would show you didn't know grace at all in the first place.

if someone gave u a gift but then you "lost it"

that does not mean it was earned in the 1st place, doesn't make it any less a gift...

and one can get a gift back that has been lost once he repents and makes, as the RCC calls it "a firm purpose of amendment"

For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
-Romans 11:29

The Bible outright contradicts you, again; you fail, again.

Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...6&version=NKJV

here, it says about the same thing as my Bible.. (Douay Rheims)

dont know what that was all about...

Says the same thing in my Bible. Not surprising since my Bible is NKJV.

You know what else my Bible says:
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
-Romans 3:28

Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.
-Romans 4:9-10

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
-Galatians 2:16

Do you know what that was that all about?

[meshak]

"WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling"


I would like to know how you are doing it. It is interesting to hear what you have to say because you are a RCC pusher.

[meshak]

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

But it isn't absent from the Bible.






Nice cop out.

You pathetic coward.

I gave you the verses that disprove your statement. The Bible explicitly states that when sin abounds grace abounds more. That is a complete contradiction of your statement, which you admit isn't in the Bible.

You fail.


Do you have any idea why James 2 says those things? Are you clueless that Paul contradicts those statements in James? Have you no understanding of changing of the rules?


Did you forget what comes after that?

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
-Romans 6:1-2

We are dead to sin. We cannot live in sin.

And yet this is all irrelevant, because Romans 6:1 is merely an exhortation to not try and take advantage of grace, because doing so would show you didn't know grace at all in the first place.


For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
-Romans 11:29

The Bible outright contradicts you, again; you fail, again.


Says the same thing in my Bible. Not surprising since my Bible is NKJV.

You know what else my Bible says:
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
-Romans 3:28

Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised.
-Romans 4:9-10

knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
-Galatians 2:16

Do you know what that was that all about?

And you ignore all Jesus' word.

[Sum1sGruj]

Originally Posted by One In Christ

Your the idiot that keeps equating salvation with water baptism... I never said such a thing


God did judge... He poured that judgement on Christ at the cross. Why do you deny this?

That is what you are doing. Who goes to Hell?
Not the evil, according to you. No, those who don't get water dunked on their head. That is exactly what you and others like you on this thread have been pushing, as if all of Jesus teachings and warnings and justice of God are just obsolete.

Your argument makes no sense. If God doe snot send evil people to Hell, then who the hell does He send? Only non-believers? Well then, you have a petty, malevolent, self-absorbed God whose wisdom matches the idiots who actually believe that.

[Zeke]

The letter killeth which is it's purpose, if you think your gaining life through keeping it your sadly mistakin, wood, hay and stubble will burn no matter how good the qaulity.

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj

That is what you are doing. Who goes to Hell?
Not the evil, according to you. No, those who don't get water dunked on their head. That is exactly what you and others like you on this thread have been pushing, as if all of Jesus teachings and warnings and justice of God are just obsolete.

Your argument makes no sense. If God doe snot send evil people to Hell, then who the hell does He send? Only non-believers? Well then, you have a petty, malevolent, self-absorbed God whose wisdom matches the idiots who actually believe that.

You completely have no clue what the DBR accomplished... It's not about keeping the law. It's about who believes in His Son for salvation.

Your good works are worthless if you don't have Christ.

You follow Jesus' teachings (which upheld the law), but you completely ignore what he did on the cross.

[Jefferson]

Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj

Just because one receives baptism or is 'born again' does not guarantee salvation.
In the same way, if one declares having faith but has nothing to show that they have any, their faith is dead and does not guarantee salvation.

"For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." - Romans 5:10