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Titus 2:13-14, Jesus is God and Savior -
April 15th, 2012, 06:14 PM
TO ALL,
Titus 2:13-14 is one of the clearest passages in scripture that teaches that Christ is God and Savior.
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
1. The verse EXPLICITLY says that Jesus Christ is our God and Savior.
2. It is EXPLICITLY stated that Jesus died to redeem us for Himself as His own special people. If Jesus is not God shouldn't He make us God's people instead of a people for "His own?"
Okay anti-trins start doing your dance.
Last edited by Wile E. Coyote; April 15th, 2012 at 07:51 PM.
Reason: Remove image
Titus 2:13-14 is one of the clearest passages in scripture that teaches that Christ is God and Savior.
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
1. The verse EXPLICITLY says that Jesus Christ is our God and Savior.
2. It is EXPLICITLY stated that Jesus died to redeem us for Himself as His own special people. If Jesus is not God shouldn't He make us God's people instead of a people for "His own?"
Titus 2:13-14 is one of the clearest passages in scripture that teaches that Christ is God and Savior.
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
1. The verse EXPLICITLY says that Jesus Christ is our God and Savior.
2. It is EXPLICITLY stated that Jesus died to redeem us for Himself as His own special people. If Jesus is not God shouldn't He make us God's people instead of a people for "His own?"
Okay anti-trins start doing your dance.
Note the word "and" could be two. God one person Jesus the other.
This is the correct way to see it.
Jesus has a God so he is not God. He is the son of God. God sent him.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Titus 2:13-14 is one of the clearest passages in scripture that teaches that Christ is God and Savior.
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
1. The verse EXPLICITLY says that Jesus Christ is our God and Savior.
2. It is EXPLICITLY stated that Jesus died to redeem us for Himself as His own special people. If Jesus is not God shouldn't He make us God's people instead of a people for "His own?"
Okay anti-trins start doing your dance.
The glorious appearing - Και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου Θεου και σωτηρος ημων Ιησου Χριστου. This clause, literally translated, is as follows: And the appearing of the glory of the great God, even our Savior Jesus Christ. On this passage I must refer the reader to the Essay on the Greek Article, by H. S. Boyd, Esq., appended to the notes on the Epistle to the Ephesians, where both the structure and doctrine of this passage are explained at large.
Some think that the blessed hope and glorious appearing mean the same thing. This is not so... The blessed hope refers simply to eternal glorification in general; the glorious appearing, to the resurrection of the body; for when Christ appears he will change this vile body, and make it like unto his Glorious Body, according to the working by which he is able even to subdue all things to himself.
Phi 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
Wow, Wile E. Coyote... I can cut and paste too ! Like how I dance?
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
Note the word "and" could be two. God one person Jesus the other.
This is the correct way to see it.
Jesus has a God so he is not God. He is the son of God. God sent him.
1. The word "and" does NOT mean two. It means that Jesus Christ is our God AND Savior. The same grammatical construction is used when Paul said, "our God AND Father." The "and" does not indicate two.
2. It says that we are HIS (Christ's) possession. Jesus Christ owns us. Therefore, He is God.
3. I have demonstrated many times that the term "Son of God" in Jewish thought meant equality with God. To the Jews Christ's claim to be the Son of God was the same as profaning God's name (John 19:7; Leviticus 24:16).
You are blatantly denying what the text most EXPLICITLY says.
There can be little doubt, if any, that by "the great God" here, the apostle referred to the Lord Jesus, for it is not a doctrine of the New Testament that God himself as such, or in contradistinction from his incarnate Son, will appear at the last day. It is said, indeed, that the Saviour will come "in the glory of his Father, with his angels" Matthew 16:27, but that God as such will appear is not taught in the Bible. The doctrine there is, that God will be manifest in his Son; that the divine approach to our world be through him to judge the race; and that though he will be accompanied with the appropriate symbols of the divinity, yet it will be the Son of God who will be visible. No one, accustomed to Paul's views, can well doubt that when he used this language he had his eye throughout on the Son of God, and that he expected no other manifestation than what would be made through him.
Kai almost never means even in Paul's usage. That rendering by Pierac isn't even really that close. The way Wilie posted it is a closer rendering of the Greek text.
Eucharist [thanksgiving] is the state of the perfect man. Eucharist is the life of paradise. Eucharist is the only full and real response of man to God's creation, redemption, and gift of heaven. - Alexander Schemann
Titus 2:13-14 is one of the clearest passages in scripture that teaches that Christ is God and Savior.
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
1. The verse EXPLICITLY says that Jesus Christ is our God and Savior.
2. It is EXPLICITLY stated that Jesus died to redeem us for Himself as His own special people. If Jesus is not God shouldn't He make us God's people instead of a people for "His own?"
Okay anti-trins start doing your dance.
BTY, you started too early... read...
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
According to your style... of interpretation All men will be saved too! Hey, at least we can agree on one thing! Jesus will save all men!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
Kai almost never means even in Paul's usage. That rendering by Pierac isn't even really that close. The way Wilie posted it is a closer rendering of the Greek text.
I must refer the reader to the Essay on the Greek Article, by H. S. Boyd, Esq., appended to the notes on the Epistle to the Ephesians, where both the structure and doctrine of this passage are explained at large.
Wow, you missed the joke entirely! I didn't render anything!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
This clause, literally translated, is as follows: And the appearing of the glory of the great God, even our Savior Jesus Christ.
Thank you Pierac! Jesus Christ is our great God, EVEN our Savior. The word "even" means "that is."
And the appearing our great God, even (that is) our Savior Jesus Christ.
The Greek "kai" (and) is used this way in Revelation 18:13 ESV,
cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.
Slaves are identified as human souls.
You should have thought it through before you posted it because your literal translation identifies the great God and the Savior as one person, that is, Jesus Christ.
Don't forget that it says that we are HIS people. This means that Jesus is God.
Note the word "and" could be two. God one person Jesus the other.
This is the correct way to see it.
Jesus has a God so he is not God. He is the son of God. God sent him.
They only see what they want to see! Christ is not Jesus' last name... So when they read Jesus Christ in scripture... It simply means anointed one of God! Like .... Jesus "anointed one of God " (Christ).
So let us but it in a more childish way that they can understand...
Titus 2:13 Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great Apple and Orange the anointed one of Apple,
Yep, Apples and (kai) Oranges!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
Pierac wrote:
Thank you Pierac! Jesus Christ is our great God, EVEN our Savior. The word "even" means "that is."
And the appearing our great God, even (that is) our Savior Jesus Christ.
The Greek "kai" (and) is used this way in Revelation 18:13 ESV,
cinnamon, spice, incense, myrrh, frankincense, wine, oil, fine flour, wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and slaves, that is, human souls.
Slaves are identified as human souls.
You should have thought it through before you posted it because your literal translation identifies the great God and the Savior as one person, that is, Jesus Christ.
Don't forget that it says that we are HIS people. This means that Jesus is God.
Yep, Apples kai Oranges!
Wile E. Coyote translation... Apples are Oranges!
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
1. The word "and" does NOT mean two. It means that Jesus Christ is our God AND Savior. The same grammatical construction is used when Paul said, "our God AND Father." The "and" does not indicate two.
2. It says that we are HIS (Christ's) possession. Jesus Christ owns us. Therefore, He is God.
3. I have demonstrated many times that the term "Son of God" in Jewish thought meant equality with God. To the Jews Christ's claim to be the Son of God was the same as profaning God's name (John 19:7; Leviticus 24:16).
You are blatantly denying what the text most EXPLICITLY says.
No, I just don't follow the crowd like you do. I see truth, you don't. You cannot have a God and be God. Jesus did not pray to himself friend. Christ, anointed one, is the son of the most high, he is a servant of his father. If you have any theology degrees I suggest you ask for your money back.
Peace
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Slogan/motto:
To give up all and follow my Beloved where ever He leads me.
Reputation:
April 15th, 2012, 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierac
The glorious appearing - Και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου Θεου και σωτηρος ημων Ιησου Χριστου. This clause, literally translated, is as follows: And the appearing of the glory of the great God, even our Savior Jesus Christ. On this passage I must refer the reader to the Essay on the Greek Article, by H. S. Boyd, Esq., appended to the notes on the Epistle to the Ephesians, where both the structure and doctrine of this passage are explained at large.
Some think that the blessed hope and glorious appearing mean the same thing. This is not so... The blessed hope refers simply to eternal glorification in general; the glorious appearing, to the resurrection of the body; for when Christ appears he will change this vile body, and make it like unto his Glorious Body, according to the working by which he is able even to subdue all things to himself.
Phi 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
Wow, Wile E. Coyote... I can cut and paste too ! Like how I dance?
Paul
Then obviously the "appearing" will not be the Father, Who did not take on human flesh and so be resurrected!
IOW, the Son is the "appearing of the great God" ...
"This then is what it means to be born again of water and Spirit: just as our dying is effected in the water, our living is wrought in the Spirit. In three immersions and in an equal number of invocations the great mystery of baptism is completed in such a way that the type of death may be shown figuratively, and that by the handing on of divine knowledge the souls of the baptized may be illuminated. If, therefore, there is any grace in the water, it is not from the nature of water but from the Spirit's presence there."--St Basil the Great (ca. 350 AD)
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