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Lazy afternoon Lazy afternoon is online now
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April 26th, 2012, 02:12 AM

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Not everyone, means that some or many do call upon the Lord Jesus.

Oatmeal says it is unnecessary.

The knowing of verse 23 is a knowing of the heart and mind of the Lord given to those who call upon the Lord who are prepared to yield to His will.

Those described who claim the right to enter the Kingdom of Heaven by their doing many wonderful works in His Name, but are not known by Christ deeply in personal fellowship, are the same as those who rely on scriptural knowledge for their supposed knowing and being known.

Many draw back from knowing Christ because of its personal cost to their freedom to do and say as they like , anytime they like to whoever they like.

2 Peter ch 2 is a description of them.

LA



   
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April 28th, 2012, 06:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Not everyone, means that some or many do call upon the Lord Jesus.

Oatmeal says it is unnecessary.

The knowing of verse 23 is a knowing of the heart and mind of the Lord given to those who call upon the Lord who are prepared to yield to His will.

Those described who claim the right to enter the Kingdom of Heaven by their doing many wonderful works in His Name, but are not known by Christ deeply in personal fellowship, are the same as those who rely on scriptural knowledge for their supposed knowing and being known.

Many draw back from knowing Christ because of its personal cost to their freedom to do and say as they like , anytime they like to whoever they like.

2 Peter ch 2 is a description of them.

LA
Is that the best you can do?

Where does scripture teach we are to talk to Jesus?

Jesus taught we pray to the Father, just like he did.

Jesus is seated at the right hand of God.

Jesus Christ is not lonely up there.

Besides God, he can talk to Gabriel and Michael and their associated messengers.

And in some instances, like his appearance to Saul on the road to Damascus, he might descend to earth to talk to us.

But don't hold your breath for that.

oatmeal

take eat, it is good for you.





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
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April 28th, 2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
Is that the best you can do?

Where does scripture teach we are to talk to Jesus?

Jesus taught we pray to the Father, just like he did.

Jesus is seated at the right hand of God.

Jesus Christ is not lonely up there.

Besides God, he can talk to Gabriel and Michael and their associated messengers.

And in some instances, like his appearance to Saul on the road to Damascus, he might descend to earth to talk to us.

But don't hold your breath for that.

oatmeal

take eat, it is good for you.

If you have never had a personal exchange of conversation with Jesus then you have never been mothered by Him, so how do you know to have a sensible conversation with the Almighty which does not offend Him.

While on earth, Jesus ministered to his disciples in order that they should become like He is of heart and knowledge and carry Him and His Father via the Holy Spirit into all of the world, they being His Bride.

You are free to talk to your Father as often as you like, but it is mere presumption to think that you stand before the Father as Jesus did, when you do not even know the voice of Him who the Father has raised in order that you be made able to stand there.

Your doctrine sidelines Jesus Christ, and you make yourself worthy before God without you talking to Him or He to you.

You are under a delusion.

LA.



   
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April 28th, 2012, 06:59 PM



Quote:
Oatmeal is outside the Faith.
No wonder, with a name like that.





Total Misanthropy.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.

Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
(The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

Bright Raven:
"It makes no difference what is said."
AcultureWarrior: It really doesn't matter what I think,
Jason: I don't care what kind of fact I got wrong.
B57: the Lord does not Love everyone, nor is it His purpose to save everyone
   
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April 28th, 2012, 07:04 PM

He might have been allowed in here, though.





Total Misanthropy.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.

Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
(The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy)

Bright Raven:
"It makes no difference what is said."
AcultureWarrior: It really doesn't matter what I think,
Jason: I don't care what kind of fact I got wrong.
B57: the Lord does not Love everyone, nor is it His purpose to save everyone
   
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April 28th, 2012, 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
If you have never had a personal exchange of conversation with Jesus then you have never been mothered by Him, so how do you know to have a sensible conversation with the Almighty which does not offend Him.

While on earth, Jesus ministered to his disciples in order that they should become like He is of heart and knowledge and carry Him and His Father via the Holy Spirit into all of the world, they being His Bride.

You are free to talk to your Father as often as you like, but it is mere presumption to think that you stand before the Father as Jesus did, when you do not even know the voice of Him who the Father has raised in order that you be made able to stand there.

Your doctrine sidelines Jesus Christ, and you make yourself worthy before God without you talking to Him or He to you.

You are under a delusion.

LA.
Quote:
If you have never had a personal exchange of conversation with Jesus then you have never been mothered by Him,
I can see that you have some theological errors to correct.

Jesus Christ is a man/male, he is not a mother.

That said, when you believe that, then we'll continue.

oatmeal





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
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April 29th, 2012, 02:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
I can see that you have some theological errors to correct.

Jesus Christ is a man/male, he is not a mother.

That said, when you believe that, then we'll continue.

oatmeal
You do not realize that the mother heart of God is Jesus Christ who feeds His lambs using men who have mother hearts--

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

If you do not know Jesus as a mother to you then you are not one of His.


LA



   
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April 29th, 2012, 05:21 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon View Post
You do not realize that the mother heart of God is Jesus Christ who feeds His lambs using men who have mother hearts--

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

If you do not know Jesus as a mother to you then you are not one of His.


LA
Jesus is a shepherd, not a shepherdess.

You have a female Jesus. God's son is a male

Jesus Christ does not have a "feminine side" He is all man, not some mere man either. It is the epitome of manhood.

Does someone need to explain the difference between the male and female for you?

Compassion, gentleness, love, caring are not feminine traits, they are Godly traits.

oatmeal





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
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April 29th, 2012, 08:24 AM

Oatmeal, you say, “You still have not pointed out any scriptures that say I should talk to Jesus”.


And I ask you: What of these verses?

John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life (proclaims in no uncertain terms exactly who and what Jesus is): NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME (He declares positively that this idea of God as Father, this approach to God for every man is THROUGH HIM — through what He is and what He has done).

John 14:7 If you had known Me, you should have known My Father also (means, “If you had learned to know me spiritually and experientially, you should have known that I and the Father are One,” i.e., One in essence and unity, and not in number”): and from Henceforth you know Him, and have seen Him (when one truly sees Jesus, one truly sees the Father; as stated, they are “One” in essence).

John 14:8 Philip said unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffices us (like Philip, all, at least for the most part, want to see God, but the far greater majority reject the only manner and way to see Him, which is through Jesus).

John 14:9 Jesus said unto Him, Have I been so long with you, and yet have you not known Me, Philip? (Reynolds says, “There is no right understanding of Jesus Christ until the Father is actually seen in Him.”) He who has seen Me has seen the Father (presents the very embodiment of Who and What the Messiah would be; if we want to know what God is like, we need only look at the Son); and how do you say then, Show us the Father?

John 14:10 Do you believe not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? (The key is “believing.”) the words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself (the words which came out of the mouth of the Master are, in fact, those of the Heavenly Father): but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works (the Father does such through the Holy Spirit).

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me (once again places Faith as the vehicle and Jesus as the Object): or else believe Me for the very works’ sake (presents a level which should be obvious to all, and includes present observation as well).


Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (1880). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.

You cannot KNOW HIM unless you have a relationship WITH HIM. So from where I am standing, there is no way that I, or you, or anybody else can go to the Father unless going to talk to Jesus [have a relationship with Him].

Yes, we ask the Father in the name of the Son, but THE SON is the door to go to the Father and if we try to go directly into the Father we are not going through the right door. I think it is in John 10:7. I am the door, by me the sheep enter and find pasture.



   
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April 29th, 2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
Oatmeal, you say, “You still have not pointed out any scriptures that say I should talk to Jesus”.


And I ask you: What of these verses?

John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life (proclaims in no uncertain terms exactly who and what Jesus is): NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME (He declares positively that this idea of God as Father, this approach to God for every man is THROUGH HIM — through what He is and what He has done).

John 14:7 If you had known Me, you should have known My Father also (means, “If you had learned to know me spiritually and experientially, you should have known that I and the Father are One,” i.e., One in essence and unity, and not in number”): and from Henceforth you know Him, and have seen Him (when one truly sees Jesus, one truly sees the Father; as stated, they are “One” in essence).

John 14:8 Philip said unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffices us (like Philip, all, at least for the most part, want to see God, but the far greater majority reject the only manner and way to see Him, which is through Jesus).

John 14:9 Jesus said unto Him, Have I been so long with you, and yet have you not known Me, Philip? (Reynolds says, “There is no right understanding of Jesus Christ until the Father is actually seen in Him.”) He who has seen Me has seen the Father (presents the very embodiment of Who and What the Messiah would be; if we want to know what God is like, we need only look at the Son); and how do you say then, Show us the Father?

John 14:10 Do you believe not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? (The key is “believing.”) the words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself (the words which came out of the mouth of the Master are, in fact, those of the Heavenly Father): but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works (the Father does such through the Holy Spirit).

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me (once again places Faith as the vehicle and Jesus as the Object): or else believe Me for the very works’ sake (presents a level which should be obvious to all, and includes present observation as well).


Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (1880). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.

You cannot KNOW HIM unless you have a relationship WITH HIM. So from where I am standing, there is no way that I, or you, or anybody else can go to the Father unless going to talk to Jesus [have a relationship with Him].

Yes, we ask the Father in the name of the Son, but THE SON is the door to go to the Father and if we try to go directly into the Father we are not going through the right door. I think it is in John 10:7. I am the door, by me the sheep enter and find pasture.
Please point out which and where in those verses I am told to talk to Jesus Christ.

Do you talk to doors? I do not.

Of course, door in reference to Jesus Christ is figurative.

But I still don't see in your verses, where I am told to talk to Jesus Christ, so please point out where it says that.

oatmeal





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
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April 29th, 2012, 12:59 PM

Oatmeal,

By reading some of your posts I can see now that it is a lost cause to try to help you to see, because you have made up your mind that YOU WILL NOT SEE, that YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE, that it is not that you do not see, but that YOU HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO SEE, what is so plainly in front of you, and you have the right to that.

So, if you want to believe that you can come to God the Father without going to Jesus, have at it.



   
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April 29th, 2012, 01:16 PM

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Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
Oatmeal,

By reading some of your posts I can see now that it is a lost cause to try to help you to see, because you have made up your mind that YOU WILL NOT SEE, that YOU DO NOT WANT TO SEE, that it is not that you do not see, but that YOU HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO SEE, what is so plainly in front of you, and you have the right to that.

So, if you want to believe that you can come to God the Father without going to Jesus, have at it.
So you admit that there are no verses that suggest we need to talk to Jesus Christ.

Of course, Jesus Christ is the way to the Father, but that verse say we are to talk to him.

This thread is about talking/praying to Jesus Christ.

Evidently, you have no verses that suggest we should either.

So, sayanara, go find a subject you know something about.

oatmeal





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
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April 29th, 2012, 03:34 PM

I am sorry for being so stupid.

Well, there are no verses that specifically mention the word "trinity" either but I can find the "trinitarian formula" all over the Bible. And yes, for me in those specific verses and others the implication is that I can talk to Jesus any time I want to. But you have the right to disagree with my conclusion.



   
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April 29th, 2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
Oatmeal, you say, “You still have not pointed out any scriptures that say I should talk to Jesus”.


And I ask you: What of these verses?

John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life (proclaims in no uncertain terms exactly who and what Jesus is): NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME (He declares positively that this idea of God as Father, this approach to God for every man is THROUGH HIM — through what He is and what He has done).

John 14:7 If you had known Me, you should have known My Father also (means, “If you had learned to know me spiritually and experientially, you should have known that I and the Father are One,” i.e., One in essence and unity, and not in number”): and from Henceforth you know Him, and have seen Him (when one truly sees Jesus, one truly sees the Father; as stated, they are “One” in essence).

John 14:8 Philip said unto Him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffices us (like Philip, all, at least for the most part, want to see God, but the far greater majority reject the only manner and way to see Him, which is through Jesus).

John 14:9 Jesus said unto Him, Have I been so long with you, and yet have you not known Me, Philip? (Reynolds says, “There is no right understanding of Jesus Christ until the Father is actually seen in Him.”) He who has seen Me has seen the Father (presents the very embodiment of Who and What the Messiah would be; if we want to know what God is like, we need only look at the Son); and how do you say then, Show us the Father?

John 14:10 Do you believe not that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? (The key is “believing.”) the words that I speak unto you I speak not of Myself (the words which came out of the mouth of the Master are, in fact, those of the Heavenly Father): but the Father who dwells in Me, He does the works (the Father does such through the Holy Spirit).

John 14:11 Believe Me that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me (once again places Faith as the vehicle and Jesus as the Object): or else believe Me for the very works’ sake (presents a level which should be obvious to all, and includes present observation as well).


Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (1880). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.

You cannot KNOW HIM unless you have a relationship WITH HIM. So from where I am standing, there is no way that I, or you, or anybody else can go to the Father unless going to talk to Jesus [have a relationship with Him].

Yes, we ask the Father in the name of the Son, but THE SON is the door to go to the Father and if we try to go directly into the Father we are not going through the right door. I think it is in John 10:7. I am the door, by me the sheep enter and find pasture.

This is all true.

1Co 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: 1Co 1:3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
1Co 1:5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
1Co 1:6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
1Co 1:7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Co 1:8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

LA



   
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April 29th, 2012, 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
Please point out which and where in those verses I am told to talk to Jesus Christ.

Do you talk to doors? I do not.

Of course, door in reference to Jesus Christ is figurative.

But I still don't see in your verses, where I am told to talk to Jesus Christ, so please point out where it says that.

oatmeal
Ok ,
If you do not want to talk to Jesus Christ then that is your decision and the ramifications from it are yours.

LA



   
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