[Traditio]

Originally Posted by Morpheus

All this brings to mind is a little used saying expressed almost exclusively between sound Christians who have actually read the Bible extensively on specific occasions, "He was a Christian in spite of his Catholicism." I said that your post brought this to mind, but not in reference to you. Catholicism has far too many rituals that are quite contrary to what the Bible teaches. That is why many consider Catholicism a cult, much like Mormonism. Popes and priest twisted scripture to fit Catholicism's politics way too many times, while teaching their flocks to listen to them instead of reading scripture. Kinda like refusing to print your Bible in anything but Latin for centuries and doing liturgies in Latin as well. Always knowing that if their flocks actually read the word diligently they would realize the obvious contradictions. That is why Luther left, you know.

Morpheus: Do you think that there is anything doctrinally unsound about worshipping the Divine Mercy and imploring our Crucified God to bestow saving grace on us?

[Guyver]

Originally Posted by Breathe

You know, I think it's in poor taste to recommend that Granite play at Pascal's Wager. But I think it is just plain mean to keep talking about his grandparents.

That was my point.

Trad,

I loved my grandparents more than I can even express.

The thought of my loving grandparents, who were never anything but selflessly good to me growing up being anywhere but in heaven, would literally make me go insane.

Thankfully, I gathered with my pastor and prayed the sinner's prayer with my grandfather "papa" only days before he slipped into a coma and died.

I prayed the same prayer with my grandmother in her final days. I thank God for that. At this point praying privately for Granite and his heartache is the best thing to do.

[Traditio]

Originally Posted by Guyver

That was my point.

Trad,

I loved my grandparents more than I can even express.

The thought of my loving grandparents, who were never anything but selflessly good to me growing up being anywhere but in heaven, would literally make me go insane.

Thankfully, I gathered with my pastor and prayed the sinner's prayer with my grandfather "papa" only days before he slipped into a coma and died.

I prayed the same prayer with my grandmother in her final days. I thank God for that. At this point praying privately for Granite and his heartache is the best thing to do.

Guyver: All I am saying is that, at worst, what I've suggested can do no harm and, at best, what I've suggested could be a very great help.

But this much is sure: It can't hurt to pray.

[One Eyed Jack]

Originally Posted by Traditio

Nobody goes to Hell by accident. A soul damns himself by clinging to sin and earthly pleasures and turning its back on God. He prefers himself to the One who created him. He has exchanged mutable goods, mere images, for the Supreme Good.

If your grandparents are in Hell, rest you assured, they deserved it and they themselves have put themselves there. And even if God could drag them up to Heaven, they wouldn't want to be there.

But we can't actually know if your grandparents are in Heaven or in Hell. But know this: God isn't limited by time. So long as you live, it's not too late for your grandparents. You can still pray to God that your grandparents died a holy death.

Pray the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy, and perhaps God, foreknowing that you would pray the chaplet on their behalf, might have poured out abundant graces on your grandparents at the hour of death, and granted them, in His abundant mercy, the grace to have died a holy death and turned to Him with their whole hearts.

If you really loved your grandparents, you owe as much to them.

Just a thought... as an atheist, he probably isn't worried about his grandparents anymore.

[Guyver]

Originally Posted by Traditio

Guyver: All I am saying is that, at worst, what I've suggested can do no harm and, at best, what I've suggested could be a very great help.

But this much is sure: It can't hurt to pray.

OK, that's true. But in the future, I hope you'll allow for some sensitivity in your responses.

I've had alot of pain in my life, but I've never lost a child...and a Christian friend of mine has. The pain he experienced over that loss was tremendous...and thankfully he's come to terms with it.

Losing someone's loved ones is never an easy thing, especially if you have doubts about where there going.

I always err on the side of God's mercy. True he doesn't override freewill, but someone's dying moments could very well be a long time, long enough to cry out to God for his mercy.

Which he will give.

[Traditio]

Originally Posted by Guyver

Losing someone's loved ones is never an easy thing, especially if you have doubts about where there going.

I always err on the side of God's mercy. True he doesn't override freewill, but someone's dying moments could very well be a long time, long enough to cry out to God for his mercy.

Which he will give.

That's why I've suggested praying the Chaplet. You need grace to be able to "cry out to God for his mercy." That's a grace that God has to bestow. One of the ways to that grace is prayer; the prayer that I've recommended is a prayer to the very Mercy of God Himself.

And note, that wasn't a closed invitation to Granite. Guyver, you might consider praying it also. For Granite. For Granite's departed grandparents. For your own departed relatives. For yourself. For me, if you don't mind.

[Granite]

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth

I read a lot of the other thread that zippy posted granite. Do you still believe in spirits?

I do, yes.

@ Jack: definitely not.

[serpentdove]

Originally Posted by Granite

...[T]he death of my grandparents within months of one another, which forced me to grapple with their eternal damnation versus the goodness of their lives...

Today, the author of Breaking Up with God: A Love Story, Sarah Sentilles, was on Dennis Prager's radio program. She struggled with the suffering of the world and a good God.

Dennis asked her if she hoped there was an afterlife. She would only say that she hoped that people would be made aware of the suffering that they caused others. She said if she were in charge there would be no suffering on earth in this life. Ge 1:31

I was surprised to hear Dennis say that he did not believe that God cares for and protects his own. He said that anyone who could be made aware of the Holocaust and still believe that must have a screw loose.

They agreed that "good people" shouldn't go to hell. Seemingly, they both believed that they were "good" people (Ro 3:12).

[Is God in Everything? In Touch Romans 8:28-29] "Is God involved in everything that happens throughout the world? How you answer that question is important. What people believe about the Lord's sovereignty affects both their trust in Him and their reactions to struggles. Moreover, believers' thoughts on God's dominion influences their compliance with His requirement. For instance, "In everything give thanks" (1 Thess. 5:18) would be an impossible standard if God were only partially in control of what's going on.

Believing God is present in the positive aspects of our lives is easy. Reconciling hardship to His promises of provision and love is tougher. But think about this: If the Lord has reason to provide a joy promotion, might He not also have reason to orchestrate a job loss? If He gives good health, might He not also allow sickness, as He permitted in Job's life (Job 2:6-7)?

The Bible says that the Lord's ways are not like our ways (Isa. 55:8). He has a master purpose for involving Himself in every aspect of believer's lives--namely, conforming them to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:29). Jesus' life was no easy or sweet. He suffered shame, abuse, ill will, and perpetuation even before He faced the cross. If we are to be like Him, then we must expect that God's loving hand will sometimes hold a tool for reshaping us...

...Every believer is encircled by God's protection (Psalm 34:7), so nothing touches our lives unless He permits or directs it. Bitterness and blame cannot take root if we accept that every good and bad thing comes with God's knowledge and permission. We can trust Him to do right by us (Rom. 8:28)." Is God in Everything? In Touch Romans 8:28-29

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Traditio

Morpheus: Do you think that there is anything doctrinally unsound about worshipping the Divine Mercy and imploring our Crucified God to bestow saving grace on us?

If you want to get into discussions of heresies such as praying to graven images, needing human intercessors between believers and God, infant baptism, and Papal infallibility, another thread would be the appropriate place. I'm sure that you would get plenty of response. As for trying to explain your myths to Granite, it would be a mistake. Having read his responses for years, and after seeing many of yours, I guarantee that he has studied the scriptures to a much greater extent, and has a better grip on them, than you. That aside, you really have no people skills whatsoever. [rhetorical]Ever been accused of being extremely inappropriate before?[/rhetorical]

[Nang]

Originally Posted by Granite

I do, yes.

@ Jack: definitely not.

Granite,

You have posted you were baptized in an non-denominational church, and then you said at that time you were a 5-point Calvinist.

Do you remember how your family and others named and identified this church?

Can you remember why you believe it was Calvinistic?

And do you remember any teachings promising the perseverance of the saints from the preacher/teachers?

Just curious . . .

Nang

[keypurr]

Originally Posted by Traditio

Nobody goes to Hell by accident. A soul damns himself by clinging to sin and earthly pleasures and turning its back on God. He prefers himself to the One who created him. He has exchanged mutable goods, mere images, for the Supreme Good.

If your grandparents are in Hell, rest you assured, they deserved it and they themselves have put themselves there. And even if God could drag them up to Heaven, they wouldn't want to be there.

But we can't actually know if your grandparents are in Heaven or in Hell. But know this: God isn't limited by time. So long as you live, it's not too late for your grandparents. You can still pray to God that your grandparents died a holy death.

Pray the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy, and perhaps God, foreknowing that you would pray the chaplet on their behalf, might have poured out abundant graces on your grandparents at the hour of death, and granted them, in His abundant mercy, the grace to have died a holy death and turned to Him with their whole hearts.

If you really loved your grandparents, you owe as much to them.

Trad, you have a good heart. You mean well, but he will not understand your faith.

God bless you friend.

[meshak]

Originally Posted by Granite

Yes.

Calvinists are not non-denom, friend.

[Dena]

Originally Posted by Granite

I do, yes.

Wait..what? You do believe in spirits?

[chrysostom]

granite is a liberal
but
does not want to admit it

[alwight]

Originally Posted by Traditio

Morpheus: Do you think that there is anything doctrinally unsound about worshipping the Divine Mercy and imploring our Crucified God to bestow saving grace on us?

I suggest you close the curtains and door, put a (paper) bag over your head, then sit on the floor for 10 minutes in quiet contemplation. After which count up all the differences between doing that and 10 minutes spent imploring a supposed omnipotent omniscient being into doing something it wasn't well aware of and wasn't going to do anyway.