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May 2nd, 2012, 01:24 AM

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Originally Posted by bigbang123 View Post
And don't tell me that you are certain about the non-existence of God in the same way you are certain about the non-existence of the Easter Bunny.
I am certain about the non-existence of gods in the same way I am certain about the non-existence of the Easter Bunny.

Quote:
No one claims or believes that the Easter Bunny created the Universe.
I'm happy to claim the Easter Bunny created the universe for the purposes of not believing it to be true.

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At best if they are honest each Atheist should instead call themselves an Agnostic.

If you disagree - tell me why
We are all agnostics. That's why we have to have the idea of faith: it is the religious person's free pass out of having to explain himself.

Stuart



   
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alwight alwight is online now
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May 2nd, 2012, 03:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123 View Post
A short list of those who disbelieve in anything outside the natural

http://youtu.be/s47ArcQL-XQ
...[snipped for brevity]
You do understand that not believing in something is not quite the same thing as believing something does not exist?

Should something existing beyond the natural ever be demonstrable, which seems rather unlikely to me, then simply none of these people on your list has any presupposed theistic baggage to ditch and have not wasted their time believing in something that isn't true.



   
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May 2nd, 2012, 09:48 AM

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Originally Posted by alwight View Post
Should something existing beyond the natural ever be demonstrable, which seems rather unlikely to me...
Many would say that humanity’s overwhelming predisposition to believe in the supernatural is demonstrable evidence that the supernatural might be real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbang123 View Post
1) OBJECTIVE REALITY – There is a near universal prevalence of religious faith in every human society
(remember, the exception does not disprove the rule – the exception confirms the rule)

2) THEORIES regarding the underlying reason for that objective reality (guesswork)
A) Non-supernatural explanation per the atheist
Religion evolved out of self-interest and the need for an above world umpire and guiding/binding set of rules.

B) Supernatural explanation per the theist and this semi-deist (me)
The result of a mental/spiritual vacuum in humans constructed by the Creator




Last edited by bigbang123; May 2nd, 2012 at 11:37 AM..
   
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May 2nd, 2012, 10:04 AM

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Originally Posted by bigbang123 View Post
Many would say that humanity’s overwhelming predisposition to believe in the supernatural is demonstrable evidence that the supernatural might be real.
Your assertion here doesn't make any headway given . . .

Many would say that the total lack of evidence of the supernatural is demonstrable evidence that the supernatural doesn't exist.






"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
   
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May 2nd, 2012, 10:30 AM

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Originally Posted by bigbang123 View Post
Many would say that humanity’s overwhelming predisposition to believe in the supernatural is demonstrable evidence
that the supernatural might be real.
Or it could be a quite naturally evolved trait and selectable advantage to think supernaturally perhaps?
Superstition and religion would perhaps have been a way of not only explaining life's scary mysteries but of herding and controlling people into groups that could more easily find or produce food and care for young and the sick etc. An actual supernatural being true or not wouldn't have mattered at all providing people tended to behave in a way that was more successful than just doing your own thing was.



   
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May 2nd, 2012, 10:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Hunter View Post
Many would say that the total lack of evidence of the supernatural is demonstrable evidence that the supernatural doesn't exist.
1 appeal to popularity. 1 argument from silence.



Let me guess. Evolutionist, right?





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

"...the waters under the "expanse" were under the crust."
-Bob B.

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May 2nd, 2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
1 appeal to popularity. 1 argument from silence.
Typically, you didn't get the point . . .






"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
   
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Silent Hunter View Post
Typically, you didn't get the point . . .
What's your point? That another evolutionist used the same fallacies?





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

"...the waters under the "expanse" were under the crust."
-Bob B.

Nominate POTYs. See this thread.
   
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Cleekster Cleekster is offline
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alwight View Post
You do understand that not believing in something is not quite the same thing as believing something does not exist?

Should something existing beyond the natural ever be demonstrable, which seems rather unlikely to me, then simply none of these people on your list has any presupposed theistic baggage to ditch and have not wasted their time believing in something that isn't true.
just because you can't prove something with the scientific method doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.....that is simply an excuse used by those who don't find Theistic/Deistic belief attractive. many Atheists(esp. New Atheists) completely reject anything outside of their own experience(or/and preconceived notions) as being possible. in fact the only difference i see between a lot of Atheists and Christians is:

God = Universe
Bible = Science

in my mind Science still hasn't explained a Creatorless universe to my satisfaction, and while i admit that it's possible i don't at this point think it's probable.





Religion can never reform mankind, because religion is slavery.
   
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  (#160) Old
bigbang123 bigbang123 is offline
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:44 AM

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Originally Posted by Silent Hunter View Post
Many would say that the total lack of evidence of the supernatural is demonstrable evidence that the supernatural doesn't exist.
A murder who leaves no fingerprints is not proof that a murder has not taken place.
Just like a Creator who leaves no fingerprints is not proof that there is no Creator.



   
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
What's your point?
That you need an explanation attests to your ignorance.



Quote:
That another evolutionist used the same fallacies?
Red Herring. Non Sequitur.






"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
   
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:51 AM

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Originally Posted by bigbang123 View Post
A murder who leaves no fingerprints is not proof that a murder has not taken place.
Just like a Creator who leaves no fingerprints is not proof that there is no Creator.
Apparently, you didn't get the point either.








"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
   
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Hunter View Post
That you need an explanation attests to your ignorance.
Yep. I have no idea what you are thinking.





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

"...the waters under the "expanse" were under the crust."
-Bob B.

Nominate POTYs. See this thread.
   
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
Yep. I have no idea what you are thinking.
Fixed it for you.





"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
   
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  (#165) Old
bigbang123 bigbang123 is offline
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May 2nd, 2012, 11:58 AM

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Originally Posted by bigbang123 View Post
Our 1 universe contains over 125 billion galaxies

Our 1 galaxy (the Milky Way) contains 200 billion stars

(the Milky Way has an estimated 6 billion stars with planetary systems like ours)

Our 1 solar system contains 1 star (the sun) and is orbited by 8 planets

Our 1 planet is orbited by 1 moon

Our planet's population - 7 billion


Composition of the human body

In summary, for a typical human almost 2/3 is hydrogen, 1/4 is oxygen, and about 1/10 is carbon. These three atoms add up to 99% of the total!

Hydrogen
Rubidium
Zirconium
Oxygen
Strontium
Cobalt
Carbon
Bromine
Cesium
Nitrogen
Aluminum
Mercury
Calcium
Copper
Arsenic
Phosphorus
Lead
Chromium
Sulfur
Cadmium
Molybdenum
Sodium
Boron
Selenium
Potassium
Manganese
Beryllium
Chlorine
Nickel
Vanadium
Magnesium
Lithium
Uranium
Silicon
Barium
Radium
Fluorine
Iodine
Iron
Tin
Zinc
Gold


number of atoms making up the human body

7,000000000000000000000000000

7 and 27 zeros

zeros / U.S. & scientific community

3 / thousand
6 / million
9 / billion
12/ trillion
15 / quadrillion
18 / quintillion
21 / sextillion
24 / septillion
27 / octillion
"Evolution has traced back the common ancestors of all living beings to algae and bactereria; to go further takes us into the world of complex molecules. Molecular biology is perhaps the most fertile area of research in evolutionary biology today. Most molecular biologists favor the idea that life arose out of self-organising molecules, and the first possible candidates are beginning to be identified." In other words, the search for final and definitive answers continues.

(Your Are Here - A Portable History of the Universe by Christopher Potter 2009)



   
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