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Bright Raven Bright Raven is offline
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May 5th, 2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr View Post
I have no problem with this verse.

But Jesus did not come imto exsistance until Mary gave birth to him. So the verse is talking about the spirit that was IN him. This same spirit that God used to create with.
You have a hard time accepting truth. Read the verse again, especially the red.

1 John 1:1-2

King James Version (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

What is it that you do not understand about eternal?





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Lazy afternoon Lazy afternoon is offline
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May 5th, 2012, 09:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
You have a hard time accepting truth. Read the verse again, especially the red.

1 John 1:1-2

King James Version (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

What is it that you do not understand about eternal?
The eternal life was with the Father at the beginning.

Jesus is the word made flesh, not the word before He was born and grown up, who was annointed to speak His Fathers word.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


LA



   
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keypurr keypurr is offline
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May 5th, 2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Raven View Post
You have a hard time accepting truth. Read the verse again, especially the red.

1 John 1:1-2

King James Version (KJV)

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

What is it that you do not understand about eternal?
Lets look at
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The spirit being that I have been talking about was with God. So being with god means he was not God. He is a form of God.
If it was just God, then there is no reason to say that some one was WITH God.
What was put into Jesus is this spiritual image of God, who was with God.
Humor me are think about that BR, if true it solves a lot of scripture problems. Like why did he say I AM when he was only 31 years old.
This is a spiritual thing friend.





Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

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Sum1sGruj Sum1sGruj is offline
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May 5th, 2012, 11:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
It denies who Jesus is. That is, it denies his very nature or essence.
No it doesn't. It just doesn't take on the form of a trinitarian's concept. The biggest fallacy that trinitarians promote is to try and equate non-trinitarians to Muslims. This is feverish conviction and blatant lie.

Quote:
The Jesus of the Bible is God in flesh appearing. The Jesus of the non-Trinitarian groups is a created being, like an angel.
Says trinitarians. But the non-trinitarian sees him simply by his title: The Son of God.

Quote:
In fact; one group - the JW's actually believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel.
And there is a group of trinitarians who believe, literally, that diamonds from Heaven fell unto a church bench.

Quote:
Many people around here who are orthodox in their beliefs have expressed concern about all the non or anti-Trinitarians invading this site with their false doctrine.
Such bigotry is tentamount to these types of threads. Does your title say "the problem", or "it's false"? You waste away at your convictions, not theology. I've made plenty of threads about trinitarianism and never resorted to such crowd-pleasing gambits in the OP. Why don't you get realistic for a minute; conform to adult intellect and rebuttals.

Quote:
At first, it didn't bother me so much because of this.

When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed[d] in heaven.”

Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.


And this....

1 John 5:12

But now it does bother me....and I'll tell you why.

TBC
What you should be bothered about is your poor excuse for even posting this thread. Look at the contexts of what you just presented without your trinitarian glasses. These so visible biases never get old



   
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meshak meshak is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 12:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post



Says trinitarians. But the non-trinitarian sees him simply by his title: The Son of God.
so true.

Quote:
What you should be bothered about is your poor excuse for even posting this thread. Look at the contexts of what you just presented without your trinitarian glasses. These so visible biases never get old
well said. They are just parroting what they are told by their churches and RCC tradition. But they all deny this fact though.



   
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Lon Lon is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 02:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
No it doesn't. It just doesn't take on the form of a trinitarian's concept.
Then it denies Jesus' nature, in the very form of God, exact duplicate, etc. etc. Your view is literally, throwing away verses. I cannot understand or fathom how you all do not see that like we do. We literally think you are mentally scissoring your bibles. We really do. There are evaluations for those who do such thing afterwards but I'm hoping you'll clear that up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
Says trinitarians. But the non-trinitarian sees him simply by his title: The Son of God.
And again with the scissors. Let me give you just one (1 of many) more: Alpha and Omega.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
And there is a group of trinitarians who believe, literally, that diamonds from Heaven fell unto a church bench.
I'd think he is saying, like them, all arians haven't been too convincing to date nor have shown exceptional prowess at convincing the Christian world anything. Just saying....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
Such bigotry is t[a]ntamount to these types of threads.
No, it isn't bigotry if it is true. There might be a rather intelligent arian out there but I haven't met him or her, yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
Does your title say "the problem", or "it's false"? You waste away at your convictions, not theology. I've made plenty of threads about trinitarianism and never resorted to such crowd-pleasing gambits in the OP. Why don't you get realistic for a minute; conform to adult intellect and rebuttals.
I don't want to scream 'lie' in your face, but I see quite a bit of back-patting among arians. I suppose I understand with so few of you and the rest of us biggotted enough to think you a bit backwards educationally.
It must be a perception thing...
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshak View Post
so true.
well said. They are just parroting what they are told by their churches and RCC tradition. But they all deny this fact though.
meshak
Quote:
Your understanding of trinity is so mature and solid.


Let's see, your friends list and then:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
I see trinitarians are back to their cherry picking.
Go back and look who changed the whole thread first away from the Titus thread for example. It is always the arian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
Why don't you get realistic for a minute; conform to adult intellect and rebuttals.
You mean like you? Good grief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
What you should be bothered about is your poor excuse for even posting this thread. Look at the contexts of what you just presented without your trinitarian glasses.
We can add another to the above "the Christ." How embarrassing!
What is worse? A very few who didn't do much better than C's in English class who all became anti-trinitarians against A and B students, or snobby A and B students? To me, at least, it seems the A and B students at least have something to brag about. Can you think of one reason why that 'shouldn't be?'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
These so visible biases never get old
I disagree. ▲I've stated the above many times and it does get old at times. You (anti-trins) think you are better able, somehow against odds, than those who went to a seminary. Then, without once having actually been there, assert hearsay knowing full-well you haven't the foggiest idea what that might have been like, yet proceeding that they are the ones duped and not you. Why? Oh, I'm sure you jumped on the question above immediately: Because "God talked to you" and nobody else but the rest of the C students because God has chosen the 'foolish' things...

Consider: The Apostles themselves, turned to an educated Paul when they had dilemas. You know, the one with the degree? You said it yourself to Guyver to join the adult world. I suggest you do the same.

-Lon





Omniscient without man's say or qualification. John 1:3 "Nothing"
Colossians 1:17 "Nothing" John 15:5 "Nothing"
Mighty, ALL mighty (omnipotent). Revelation 1:8
No possible limitation other than in man's wishful finite inanity Isaiah
40:25 Joshua 24:15
Infinite (Omnipresent) Psalm 145:3 Hebrews 4:13

Is Calvinism okay? Yep

Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think... Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21

1Co 13:11 ... when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. *************************************

Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
   
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Sum1sGruj Sum1sGruj is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 02:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon View Post
Then it denies Jesus' nature, in the very form of God, exact duplicate, etc. etc. Your view is literally, throwing away verses. I cannot understand or fathom how you all do not see that like we do. We literally think you are mentally scissoring your bibles. We really do. There are evaluations for those who do such thing afterwards but I'm hoping you'll clear that up.
I throw away no verses. Time and time again (doing so and stating this), I have revealed 'proof texts' to not really be proof of anything except that Jesus is celestial or that, simply, it is the Father speaking.
What you all think doesn't matter because you all think by tradition, conform by tradition, and enact by tradition. All roads led to Rome, and so therefore, they also lead away from Rome.
There shouldn't be anyone 'concerned' about non-trinitarians except for Catholics, because Protestants threw away 95% of all other traditions, keeping the trinity to necessitate for it's convenient understanding of God's three acts of deliverance.

Quote:
And again with the scissors. Let me give you just one (1 of many) more: Alpha and Omega.
Who is speaking in that verse, and is it speaking before or after the fact? Nobody said the non-trinitarian interpretation follows with the trinitarian doctrine, and it shouldn't.

Quote:
I'd think he is saying, like them, all arians haven't been too convincing to date nor have shown exceptional prowess at convincing the Christian world anything. Just saying....
You mean, trinitarians didn't have the man power to force upon others. Such 'orthodoxy' was enforced with fines, torture, or worse. The trinity concept is convincing on the surface and many people accept it.
For example, people once accepted Ptolemy's model, and nobody questioned it except for those who were willing to. These people were persecuted. But since the universe is something that can be observed, the Church had no choice but to concede to new findings.

Quote:
No, it isn't bigotry if it is true. There might be a rather intelligent arian out there but I haven't met him or her, yet.
You have met an intelligent Arian, you just don't find them to be intelligent because they disagree with your concept.
Nothing but irony in your statement. Denial is a powerful entity.

Quote:
I don't want to scream 'lie' in your face, but I see quite a bit of back-patting among arians. I suppose I understand with so few of you and the rest of us biggotted enough to think you a bit backwards educationally.
It must be a perception thing...
That's only natural, to an extent. They don't, however, go *metaphorically* (once literal) tie people to a stake and light a torch. Can't say that much for trinitarians, not in the slightest.

Quote:
Consider: The Apostles themselves, turned to an educated Paul when they had dilemas. You know, the one with the degree? You said it yourself to Guyver to join the adult world. I suggest you do the same.
I'm in the adult world. I've always been more then willing to discuss the trinity in detail., it is you trinitarians who time and time again turn it into a crusade. This entire thread, from the get go, is gigantic trinitarian crusade. No discussion, just finger pointing and asinine conjectures.
But patience can sometimes run out, and sometimes a less then humble statement has to be made to counteract that montage of absurdity.



   
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keypurr keypurr is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 12:03 PM

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Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
Keypurr, I would have much more respect for someone who says in response to a theme they disagree with, "You know what, I choose not to believe that." I would respect that. That would be an honest answer.

Now, you do not want to believe in the trinity? OK with me.

Go tell God that you do not believe what He so clearly laid out on His Word, the Bible, don't tell me --- my autograph is no where to be found in the Bible.

You have any complaints about the Book, I would suggest that you go take your complaints to the Author of the Book.
My complaints are not with the book friend, it is with the way the book is interpreted. If the trinity was so clearly laid out, I would still be a trin. You also have freedom of choice. You like tradition, I like truth.

Sorry if you find my manner and words offensive, but how else can I relate truth to you without stepping on your faith as you do mine. It is not a disagreement of our person friend, just our theology.





Psalm 1[/COLOR] and Job 28:28

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

I love the God of my Lord Jesus Christ
   
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Sum1sGruj Sum1sGruj is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 12:12 PM

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Originally Posted by lifeisgood View Post
I should have thought of this one.
Trinitarians think?



   
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May 6th, 2012, 12:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
Trinitarians think?
Three times more than unitarians...



   
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May 6th, 2012, 12:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Lon View Post
Keypurr, Which means in some way or another, He was equal, just not 'holding on' or 'grasping.'
Glad you brought up Philippians 2:6

But let us include a little context.

Philippians 2:5-6

" Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Since we are to let this mind be in us, which was also in Christ Jesus, and Christ Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God then we are to think it not robbery for us to be equal with God.


Is that what you had in mind?

If Jesus Christ thought he was God we are to think we are God?

You three in one is off by millions and millions

When you people wake up?

Why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Think for once in your life!

oatmeal





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
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May 6th, 2012, 01:14 PM

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Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
Glad you brought up Philippians 2:6

But let us include a little context.

Philippians 2:5-6

" Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

Since we are to let this mind be in us, which was also in Christ Jesus, and Christ Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God then we are to think it not robbery for us to be equal with God.
[/SIZE]


Is that what you had in mind?

If Jesus Christ thought he was God we are to think we are God?[/SIZE]

You three in one is off by millions and millions

When you people wake up?

Why don't you put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Think for once in your life!

oatmeal
Oatmeal,

You TOTALLY misunderstand the text. It says, "though being in the form of God He thought it not robbery to be equal with God BUT made Himself nothing...."

We are not in the form of God but Jesus was. The "mind" of Christ we are to imitate is the self denial. The mind of Christ begins with the "But...." He did not assert His perogatives. That's the point dude!! If He was a mere servant to begin with as you suggest, then there was nothing especially exemplary about His making Himself nothing for He would be nothing anyway. He made Himself a servant.

Do you have a mental block or something? It CLEARLY says that He was God made nothing for your sake. Repent of your errors!



   
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May 6th, 2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Oatmeal,

You TOTALLY misunderstand the text. It says, "though being in the form of God He thought it not robbery to be equal with God BUT made Himself nothing...."

We are not in the form of God but Jesus was. The "mind" of Christ we are to imitate is the self denial. The mind of Christ begins with the "But...." He did not assert His perogatives. That's the point dude!! If He was a mere servant to begin with as you suggest, then there was nothing especially exemplary about His making Himself nothing for He would be nothing anyway. He made Himself a servant.

Do you have a mental block or something? It CLEARLY says that He was God made nothing for your sake. Repent of your errors!


Exactly. If the plain sense of Phil 2 is not clear concerning Christ's Deity, then nothing will be.



   
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May 6th, 2012, 03:55 PM

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Originally Posted by steko View Post
Exactly. If the plain sense of Phil 2 is not clear concerning Christ's Deity, then nothing will be.
Jesus is Gods son , a man through God and the human race.

Jesus is a resurrected man FILLED with the fulness of God.

Why add or take away from Gods word?

LA



   
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May 6th, 2012, 04:05 PM

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Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj View Post
The biggest fallacy that trinitarians promote is to try and equate non-trinitarians to Muslims. This is feverish conviction and blatant lie.
Muslims deny Jesus' deity and the Trinity just like all uni's - even though their scriptures confirm His deity and the Trinity.

You might as well worship their false god 'allah' for all the good it does you being a unitarian.



   
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