[heir]

Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker

Verse 28 contains 2 commandments:
1) Let a man examine himself.
2) Let him take the Lord's Supper.

1 Corinthians 11:28-29 KJV But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

Can you think of anyone that "eateth and drinketh unworthily"? How can a member of the Body of Christ "eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body"?

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

Absolutely in total agreement.

God Bless

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker

Dear STP,
I am referring to the things revealed by Christ directly to Paul which you have been ignoring.
Once again! Paul told the Corinthians that the things he wrote to them were the commandments of the Lord.
Timothy was, actually, with Paul when he wrote to the church of God which was at Corinth. (See 2 Co 1:1.)
Timothy was with Paul in Corinth, also. See Acts 18:5. So, when Paul wrote to withdraw from, and teach others to withdraw from, those who do not consent to the words of the Lord Jesus Christ, Timothy knew that that included the commandments written by Paul to Corinth.
In other words, no one who knows Paul's doctrine can follow it and stay in a church that does not consent to the commandment to desire spiritual gifts.
This same reasoning applies to the manner of communion which, according to 1 Co 11:23, Paul received from the Lord and delivered to the Corinthians.
Using the past tense of 'deliver', it is clear that he gave them communion- and that, no earlier than Acts 18.
That being the literal case, the words starting about the mid-point of 1 Co 11:23 through vs. 25 was a reminder.
In vs. 26, Paul refers to the Lord in the third person writing "the Lord's death" and "till He come".
That forces Paul and the Corinthians into the 1st and 2nd person, respectively. That makes the 'Wherefore' of vs. 27 the beginning of a lesson to be learned from the words of the Lord Jesus Christ consent to which is one of Paul's requirements for fellowship.
The "whosoever" of that same vs. 27 includes you and me.
Verse 28 contains 2 commandments:
1) Let a man examine himself.
2) Let him take the Lord's Supper.

I agree with you fully on this.

Just as Abraham received physical circumcision, as a sign that he had already believed/had faith, so the church is to take the physical bread/wine to show that they have faith in what it represented. These things are pointing us to the reality/spiritual, just like water baptism points to the reality/spiritual baptism. We do not 'do' them to be saved, but to show the world, or those who are among us/congregation that we have underwent the true reality of each. Just as Abraham was the example to the physical congregation of Israel. What we are NOT to do is to do as the congregation of Israel was cut off for; not having faith and doing the things of the law, without faith, and doing them by striving, to be right with God. That is unbelief.

Keep up the good work, Trumpet.

[SaulToPaul]

Originally Posted by NewDay

Keep up the good work, Trumpet.

Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker

To be saved, you must desire spiritual gifts.

[SaulToPaul]

Originally Posted by heir

Can you think of anyone that "eateth and drinketh unworthily"? How can a member of the Body of Christ "eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body"?

He has never seen a single person fall out with sickness after partaking of the bread and grape juice at his church.

[Trumpetfolker]

Dear STP,
Please deal with POV statement which you supported,this objection,these objecting scriptures, and the reasoning they support.

Paul commands me to speak the truth in love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heir View Post
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...&postcount=266
STP supported the statement above.
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums...&postcount=267
Now, let's see how heir learned something that had nothing to do with the truth.
First of all, your statement about the church at Jerusalem was, being full of assumption, very inaccurate.
Quote:
Ac 8:1 And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
That was a looong time before Ac 20:28.
Quote:
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

1Co 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Paul wrote letters to the church of God at Corinth and told them how he persecuted the church of God.
As one who called the church of God in a city he never reached until Acts 18 "the seal of my apostleship", there is no way to confuse the identity of this church with anything besides the BOC.
Quote:
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
Paul taught Timothy how to choose elders to care for the church of God. And, Paul taught Timothy to teach all the things that he had learned from Paul to faithful men so that the Word of God would always have teachers.
So, today, teachers who follow Paul should be finding men who ruled their own houses well to be elders who care for the church of God.

[Trumpetfolker]

Originally Posted by SaulToPaul

But, The Donald just kind of morphed gradually into a believer. There was never a day as a lost and damned sinner that he believed the gospel and placed his trust in Christ...apparently. That question is always dodged.

Please STP,
Since, years ago, I gave you the story of my salvation in response to your request for it, you and I, both, know that the statement above makes you a bald faced liar.
Since we both know you lied about that, it makes your resistance to the true words of Paul, likely, the defense of a liar.

Lying is only one of the tactics you use. (That sin is just a symptom of being under the curse of preaching a gospel other than the one Paul preached.) Argument losers, also, use ad hominem which is directing attention to the opponent rather than the argument.
Since I have learned your sneaking-to-pervert ways, I'll work harder to keep you on topic.

Questions I would like to see you answer in order to find out how you justify not desiring spiritual gifts are below.
1) Do you really believe that Jesus Christ gave Paul direct revelation.
2) Do you believe the things Paul wrote to the Corinthians were revelations of the words of the Lord Jesus Christ?
3) Do you believe that the commandments Paul wrote to the Corinthians came from the Lord?
4) Do you believe Paul spoke in tongues more than any of the Corinthians?
5) Do you believe that Paul was speaking the words of the Lord when he said he would continue speaking in tongues?
6) Do you believe Paul wrote something like "Follow after charity and desire spiritual gifts..."?

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by SaulToPaul

He has never seen a single person fall out with sickness after partaking of the bread and grape juice at his church.

I partook unworthily, according to the standard in the word of truth.

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by NewDay

I agree with you fully on this.

Just as Abraham received physical circumcision, as a sign that he had already believed/had faith, so the church is to take the physical bread/wine to show that they have faith in what it represented. These things are pointing us to the reality/spiritual, just like water baptism points to the reality/spiritual baptism. We do not 'do' them to be saved, but to show the world, or those who are among us/congregation that we have underwent the true reality of each. Just as Abraham was the example to the physical congregation of Israel. What we are NOT to do is to do as the congregation of Israel was cut off for; not having faith and doing the things of the law, without faith, and doing them by striving, to be right with God. That is unbelief.

Keep up the good work, Trumpet.

More poor grammar, tsk tsk.

Psst... It's undergone, in this tense.

Also, doing these things is unnecessary even in regards to showing the world, or even the congregation, that we have been changed. Especially since doing these things doesn't actually prove anything.

[Trumpetfolker]

Dear Lighthouse,
Since it is the Lord who bought us, each of us has a responsibility to listen to Him, for we share one Spirit with Him.

1Co 6: 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

Each has the duty to know what His Lord wants from him. As opportunity to know the will of God is made available, one loses the ability to say, "I didn't know". He can not justify his disobedience by saying, " My pastor mislead me". Thus, one of the commandments is to remain free from the will of men.

1Co 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

These things are taught in the doctrine given by Jesus to Paul, and, through Paul, to Timothy and those Timothy was training. This process is called discipleship.

2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

Once the commandment is known, obedience is expected.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Timothy was with Paul during Paul's first period of serving the Lord in Corinth. Timothy was with Paul when he wrote the second epistle to Corinth. Therefore, it is not reasonable to believe that the things written in the epistles to Corinth were unknown to Timothy.
The letters to Corinth are the only Pauline writing of which I have knowledge about which Paul says "These are the commandments of the Lord".

1 Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

So, everyone who aspires to have spiritual influence must, first, acknowledge that the things Paul wrote are imperatives. Those who are content to follow directions ignorantly, let them do it.
The things written to Corinth can not be the commandments of the Lord without being words of the Lord Jesus Christ to which all who are being nurtured up in the words of the faith must consent.

Peter said that, to be an apostle, one had to eat a meal with Jesus after His resurrection. Paul received the Lord's Supper from Jesus, Himself. Paul delivered the Lord's Supper to the Corinthians before he wrote the first letter to Corinth..

1Co 11:23 ¶ For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

The words of the Lord, as reported by Paul, include the command to take the Lord's Supper in remembrance of Him, are to be observed. Those trained by the words of the Lord Jesus Christ through Paul must withdraw from those who contend against those words.
The words of the Lord Jesus Christ are the only things Paul wrote to the Corinthians. He did not write as one who beats the air. He wrote with certainty.

1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

When he chooses a particular anecdote, and says "The Lord said this...", it just gets more important.

[Lighthouse]

Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker

Dear Lighthouse,
Since it is the Lord who bought us, each of us has a responsibility to listen to Him, for we share one Spirit with Him.

Each has the duty to know what His Lord wants from him. As opportunity to know the will of God is made available, one loses the ability to say, "I didn't know". He can not justify his disobedience by saying, " My pastor mislead me". Thus, one of the commandments is to remain free from the will of men.

These things are taught in the doctrine given by Jesus to Paul, and, through Paul, to Timothy and those Timothy was training. This process is called discipleship.

Once the commandment is known, obedience is expected.

Timothy was with Paul during Paul's first period of serving the Lord in Corinth. Timothy was with Paul when he wrote the second epistle to Corinth. Therefore, it is not reasonable to believe that the things written in the epistles to Corinth were unknown to Timothy.
The letters to Corinth are the only Pauline writing of which I have knowledge about which Paul says "These are the commandments of the Lord".

So, everyone who aspires to have spiritual influence must, first, acknowledge that the things Paul wrote are imperatives. Those who are content to follow directions ignorantly, let them do it.
The things written to Corinth can not be the commandments of the Lord without being words of the Lord Jesus Christ to which all who are being nurtured up in the words of the faith must consent.

Peter said that, to be an apostle, one had to eat a meal with Jesus after His resurrection. Paul received the Lord's Supper from Jesus, Himself. Paul delivered the Lord's Supper to the Corinthians before he wrote the first letter to Corinth..

The words of the Lord, as reported by Paul, include the command to take the Lord's Supper in remembrance of Him, are to be observed. Those trained by the words of the Lord Jesus Christ through Paul must withdraw from those who contend against those words.
The words of the Lord Jesus Christ are the only things Paul wrote to the Corinthians. He did not write as one who beats the air. He wrote with certainty.

When he chooses a particular anecdote, and says "The Lord said this...", it just gets more important.

And if He no longer wants these things from us?

[Trumpetfolker]

Heir,
Does your church practice that?

1 Corinthians 5:7-8 KJV Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Do you believe that the purging of the leaven of wicked people in 1 Co ch. 5 was still in Paul's mind when he spoke of people getting drunk while others went home hungry in 1 Co ch.11? Do you think that's why, in 1 Co ch. 11, he told people to eat and drink at home?

1 Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord’s supper.
21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.
22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
23 ¶ For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come.
27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Since Paul is speaking of discerning the Lord's body after just telling the church of God at Corinth that Jesus said the bread was His body,
Paul gives the church of God at Corinth no room here for understanding anything but the elements of the Lord's supper.

[SaulToPaul]

Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker

Since Paul is speaking of discerning the Lord's body after just telling the church of God at Corinth that Jesus said the bread was His body,

And, who is the bread, his Body?


1 Corinthians 10:17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.


Do you eat yourself? Do you eat the church?


Accept what is written before you pontificate about things you have imagined with the vanity of your mind.


Think. Paul isn't trying to get the Corinthians to keep an ordinance, but to realize that they are the bread, the Body.


Why are you subject to ordinances?

[NewDay]

Stp, for some reason, when I try to reply to your posts, the quotes disappear, so I had to edit this one to fix it. Do you know why they disappear, though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewDay

Keep up the good work, Trumpet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker
To be saved, you must desire spiritual gifts.

He already cleared up that the 'saving' is what produces the desire.

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Lighthouse

More poor grammar, tsk tsk.

Psst... It's undergone, in this tense.

Also, doing these things is unnecessary even in regards to showing the world, or even the congregation, that we have been changed. Especially since doing these things doesn't actually prove anything.

I agree they do not prove anything to the world. That is not the point, and was never the point. Ask yourself this. What does the bible say that the point was with Abraham?

I won't argue with you, on my faith. You can believe it as you wish, brother.