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Trinitarians are fighting to retain a spirit which tells them lies about Christ, which they think is God.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
I have no time for the trinitarian hatred. God has finished with them.
LA
The real demon in the whole debate is the one in those trinitarians who actually think their concept is a salvific requirement. Non-trinitarians are just as filled in spirit as any trinitarian, even more so then trinitarians such as them who commit to Hellenistic philosophy over what actually matters.
They hate non-trinitarians and have demonstrated that beyond a reasonable doubt which, according to Scripture, makes their lot something like the Pharisees.
Last edited by Sum1sGruj; May 8th, 2012 at 12:43 PM.
Reason: mistook quote
This is why doctrines should not be formed by using one word such as image. The whole of Scripture proves Jesus is God come in the flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
This verse cannot be used with much credibility to support the belief that Jesus is God in the flesh, because it is either a scribal error; a mistaken or intended mistranslation. The passage is speaking of the man Jesus as the grammar and context implies. More proper translations are below -
Quote:
And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory.
-Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition
--------------------o
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was [a] vindicated [b]in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory.
- New American Standard Bible (NASB)
------------------o
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:
He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,[a]
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.
- New International Version (NIV)
-----------------------o
Articles that give more evidence on the appropriate translation of 1 Timothy 3:16
This is why doctrines should not be formed by using one word such as image. The whole of Scripture proves Jesus is God come in the flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus is the express image of the of the invisible God...man is NOT. Hebrews 1:3
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Colossians 2:8-10 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
Listen to your own words. Jesus is the express image of God, we are not. We are just an image. We are limited. Christ had powers we do not, given to him by his God. Christ is anointed by his father, his God. He did not come on his own, he was sent. Jesus is a created image of God, scripture tells you that, not keypurr. Take what has been given to you and run with it. See where it leads your theology. It may open your understanding of scripture even more. The sooner you learn that Jesus is created you will open to a wealth of understanding friend.
God is spirit, to know him is to know that. Jesus was his image for us to see. Jesus came in the flesh, God did not.
Peace
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
This verse cannot be used with much credibility to support the belief that Jesus is God in the flesh, because it is either a scribal error; a mistaken or intended mistranslation. The passage is speaking of the man Jesus as the grammar and context implies. More proper translations are below -
Articles that give more evidence on the appropriate translation of 1 Timothy 3:16
They have been truth smacked and they don't know how to handle it.
You post is GREAT my friend.
Peace
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Even granted the translation controversy of said verse, its general meaning still holds ....that divinity was manifested in the physical person...or 'humanity' of Jesus ('God' did appear in the person of the Son). Jesus embodied 'God' so to speak as a witness to his glory. A passage more or less ambiguous is often be interpreted with one's own doctrinal bias, and naturally so. However a thorough objective research of a text is essential before we add an 'interpretation'. Of course one can argue that even without this passage, there are many others that support a 'Trinity' ( and just as many that support a Unitarian perspective).
As I touched on elsewhere, one can be a unitarian, trinitarian or 'whatever', and still love and follow Jesus as the Messiah or representative of God. The Man Jesus was a pure Unitarian and rightly so, for in his humanity he ascribed only to God the Father the nature and personality of absolute Deity.
On other levels we may assume Jesus divinity by special creation or a prior glory in the heirarchy of heaven (as 'Firstborn', 'arch-angel', 'eon', 'Creator-Son', etc.). All Jesus asks is a sacred trust in his divine leadership and a committment to live God's will. Our 'Christology' may vary in minor details which do not necessarily affect our devotion to the Savior and service to humanity. The Master said others would recognize we are children of God by our love....and said we would be 'perfect' like our Father in heaven, by our demonstration of such love.
Subscribing to religious dogma, creed or theology does not necessarily make one a follower of Jesus. Doing what Jesus says and living the religion that he lived, is what makes one a christian.
Even granted the translation controversy of said verse, its general meaning still holds ....that divinity was manifested in the physical person...or 'humanity' of Jesus ('God' did appear in the person of the Son). Jesus embodied 'God' so to speak as a witness to his glory. A passage more or less ambiguous is often be interpreted with one's own doctrinal bias, and naturally so. However a thorough objective research of a text is essential before we add an 'interpretation'. Of course one can argue that even without this passage, there are many others that support a 'Trinity' ( and just as many that support a Unitarian perspective).
As I touched on elsewhere, one can be a unitarian, trinitarian or 'whatever', and still love and follow Jesus as the Messiah or representative of God. The Man Jesus was a pure Unitarian and rightly so, for in his humanity he ascribed only to God the Father the nature and personality of absolute Deity.
On other levels we may assume Jesus divinity by special creation or a prior glory in the heirarchy of heaven (as 'Firstborn', 'arch-angel', 'eon', 'Creator-Son', etc.). All Jesus asks is a sacred trust in his divine leadership and a committment to live God's will. Our 'Christology' may vary in minor details which do not necessarily affect our devotion to the Savior and service to humanity. The Master said others would recognize we are children of God by our love....and said we would be 'perfect' like our Father in heaven, by our demonstration of such love.
Subscribing to religious dogma, creed or theology does not necessarily make one a follower of Jesus. Doing what Jesus says and living the religion that he lived, is what makes one a christian.
pj
Freelight you have a lot of truth. We all seem to agree that in some way God used Jesus show the love he has for all of us. As he loves us we should love each other. No matter how different our theology our goal is the same. You have always understood that. You have never been harsh with anyone.
Peace my friend
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
True Christians worship Jesus as the Triune creator God of the Universe.
Nope, no one in the first century supported the trinity.
You have fallen prey to RCC theology which was enforced by the Emperor. Your choice.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Moses was Trinitarian and he lived thousands of years prior.
Looks like people such as yourself simply lost the recipe...
Prove to me Moses was a trin.
Since Jesus was not born yet, you need to do a lot of talking.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
The real demon in the whole debate is the one in those trinitarians who actually think their concept is a salvific requirement. Non-trinitarians are just as filled in spirit as any trinitarian, even more so then trinitarians such as them who commit to Hellenistic philosophy over what actually matters.
They hate non-trinitarians and have demonstrated that beyond a reasonable doubt which, according to Scripture, makes their lot something like the Pharisees.
I don't hate you or anyone else. The difference between us is who's Spirit are we filled with. The Spirit of God or the spirit of a created man annointed by God.
Trinitarians are fighting to retain a spirit which tells them lies about Christ, which they think is God.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
I have no time for the trinitarian hatred. God has finished with them.
LA
Has He? You're the judge of that, I take it? God is higher than you make Him out to be. If you want to believe Jesus isn't God then why have faith in Him. Just ignore Him, like the Jews did and have faith in God. Zeal for God won't save you. You must be born again of the Spirit of Christ...which is the Spirit of God.
This verse cannot be used with much credibility to support the belief that Jesus is God in the flesh, because it is either a scribal error; a mistaken or intended mistranslation. The passage is speaking of the man Jesus as the grammar and context implies. More proper translations are below -
Ah, that must be it...a "scribal error" or a mistaken "mistranslation." That's certainly easier to accept for some than the Truth found throughout the Word of God.
Listen to your own words. Jesus is the express image of God, we are not. We are just an image. We are limited. Christ had powers we do not, given to him by his God. Christ is anointed by his father, his God. He did not come on his own, he was sent. Jesus is a created image of God, scripture tells you that, not keypurr. Take what has been given to you and run with it. See where it leads your theology. It may open your understanding of scripture even more. The sooner you learn that Jesus is created you will open to a wealth of understanding friend.
God is spirit, to know him is to know that. Jesus was his image for us to see. Jesus came in the flesh, God did not.
Peace
You're teaching the wrong thing, Keypurr, yet you labor so hard at it. Who is your Saviour? The clone of God?
1 Timothy 4:9-11 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach.
John 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
1 Timothy 3:16 -
May 8th, 2012, 04:45 AM
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