[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

No argument there. I think the problem is we're each addressing something different.
You're saying evil must be fought. I agree.
I'm saying it's important to think about how evil is fought, and how one must examine one's own methods and motives while doing so.

Salvation and obedience to God's word should be inseparable.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that in order to be saved you must be obedient to God, I'm saying that once you are saved you must be.

Is the battle for God, or for personal satisfaction? I'm pointing right back to the quote in the OP.
But your Scripture is right on.

Do you not get "personal satisfaction" when you follow God's word?

There is great satisfaction in fighting for His word. It's not for everyone, as confrontation (as I've seen firsthand) is not for every Christian.

[annabenedetti]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Do you not get "personal satisfaction" when you follow God's word?

Certainly. And there are many places where His words remind us of what Christian behavior ought to be.

There is great satisfaction in fighting for His word. It's not for everyone, as confrontation (as I've seen firsthand) is not for every Christian.

Hopefully the satisfaction is tempered with at least a modicum of humility in the knowledge that whatever good is done is not through our own efforts but only by the grace of God working through us. Too many Christians take pride in what they perceive as their own actions. Again, back to the OP.

As for confrontation, there are many ways to contend. Not all of them are obvious to the casual reader.

There are many parts to the body of Christ, as I know you're aware.

[bybee]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

Certainly. And there are many places where His words remind us of what Christian behavior ought to be.

Hopefully the satisfaction is tempered with at least a modicum of humility in the knowledge that whatever good is done is not through our own efforts but only by the grace of God working through us. Too many Christians take pride in what they perceive as their own actions. Again, back to the OP.

As for confrontation, there are many ways to contend. Not all of them are obvious to the casual reader.

There are many parts to the body of Christ, as I know you're aware.

In a Christian forum we are sometimes, contending with each other's words. It is wise, whenever possible to leave an opening for explanations.
It is when flat judgmental statements are made which are intended to belittle or negate the beliefs of others that trouble shall ensue!

[aCultureWarrior]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

There are many parts to the body of Christ, as I know you're aware.

Some Christians choose to be missionaries, others to be warriors, and some both (a warrior's words won't be as eloquent as a missionary's).

Whichever path God decides for us to take, acknowledging His word as the absolute truth is a must for all Christians.

[annabenedetti]

Originally Posted by aCultureWarrior

Some Christians choose to be missionaries, others to be warriors, and some both (a warrior's words won't be as eloquent as a missionary's).

Whichever path God decides for us to take, acknowledging His word as the absolute truth is a must for all Christians.

Yes. And to clarify my take on a term we both used earlier, I think I'd change "personal satisfaction" to "peace" in following the will (word) of God.
Somehow, on further reflection, personal satisfaction still seems to connect with personal pride in my mind. Maybe I'm wrong.

Anyway, moving on with another thought:

In no way do I have the intent to take the warrior out of the Christian. (Or your screen name....there is indeed a culture war being waged.)
Again, mindful of the OP, the knights had a code of honor historically documented in various forms.

One, from the Order of the Golden Fleece via the Duke of Burgundy, defined the knight's 12 chivalric virtues as:

faith,
charity,
justice,
sagacity,
prudence,
temperance,
resolution,
truth,
liberality,
diligence,
hope
valour.

Another code, from the Song of Roland, lists the following:


To fear God and maintain His Church
To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
To protect the weak and defenceless
To give succour to widows and orphans
To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
To live by honour and for glory
To despise pecuniary reward
To fight for the welfare of all
To obey those placed in authority
To guard the honour of fellow knights
To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
To keep faith
At all times to speak the truth
To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
To respect the honour of women
Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
Never to turn the back upon a foe

Now of course, none of the above has the authority of Scripture, but it does echo what can be found in Scripture.

So yes, we desperately need warriors.
But we need warriors who understand that their duty is divinely ordained and divinely graced, meant to be taken on solely for the honor and glory of God, not for the personal satisfaction of hitting the "post" button.

Prudence comes to mind, and again, back to humility. And that brings to mind the Litany of Humility.
Yes, it's Catholic, but with regard to doctrine, you've not held that against me in our common stand against the moral issues of our day, so hopefully you'll bear with me now:

O Jesus! meek and humble of heart, Hear me.
From the desire of being esteemed,
Deliver me, Jesus.

From the desire of being loved...
From the desire of being extolled ...
From the desire of being honored ...
From the desire of being praised ...
From the desire of being preferred to others...
From the desire of being consulted ...
From the desire of being approved ...
From the fear of being humiliated ...
From the fear of being despised...
From the fear of suffering rebukes ...
From the fear of being calumniated ...
From the fear of being forgotten ...
From the fear of being ridiculed ...
From the fear of being wronged ...
From the fear of being suspected ...

That others may be loved more than I,
Jesus, grant me the grace to desire it.

That others may be esteemed more than I ...
That, in the opinion of the world,
others may increase and I may decrease ...
That others may be chosen and I set aside ...
That others may be praised and I unnoticed ...
That others may be preferred to me in everything...
That others may become holier than I, provided that I may become as holy as I should.


Being humble doesn't take strength from the warrior. I believe it has quite the opposite effect.

[Town Heretic]

Good thread, anna but a couple of points:

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

...sagacity,

I think that might be a rules violation.

To give succour to widows and orphans

That's not how you spell sucker and it should be pluralized.

To refrain from the wanton giving of offence

I love those. How do they give offense?

To fight for the welfare of all

Liberals.

Keep up the good work else.

[annabenedetti]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

...sagacity,

Originally Posted by Town Heretic

I think that might be a rules violation.

At the very least a foreign concept, which could even bring down the ban-hammer.

Keep up the good work else.

Thanks.

[fzappa13]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

I read this short essay, and the following really resonated with me:





So I got to thinking: In the arena of internet Christian apologetics discussions:

How comfortable are you with the truth-smack?

Is a direct blow to the opponent's psyche, a decisive shattering of his gestalt not only allowable, but admirable?

Or is the deft slice of the verbal razor more preferable, which inflicts the same damage while leaving less evidence behind?

Do you think it's possible to maintain a particular level of discourse? Or does human nature ensure an inevitable degeneration?




----------------------------------
Entire (short) essay here:

The author is Elizabeth Duffy, a writer whose work I really admire.

Two verses leap to mind:

Proverbs 18:21

21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


okay ... make it three ...

Ecclesiastes 5:2
Be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter any thing before God: for God is in heaven, and thou upon earth: therefore let thy words be few.



Oh dear, look there ... I have gone on overlong already I suspect.

[annabenedetti]

Well done, fzappa. I'm in total agreement with you.

[fzappa13]

Originally Posted by annabenedetti

Well done, fzappa. I'm in total agreement with you.

*blush*

[Lon]

Originally Posted by fzappa13

... therefore let thy words be few.

Oh boy are we all in trouble!

It's that 'rash' thing (thankfully I don't use red very often...whew!)

[fzappa13]

Originally Posted by Lon

Oh boy are we all in trouble!

It's that 'rash' thing (thankfully I don't use red very often...whew!)

?

Oh ... I get it ... red ... rash ...

You know, the humor has gotten a lot more subtle around these parts as of late ...


... I can't help but think that's a positive development.




As long as I can keep up.

[kmoney]

Originally Posted by Town Heretic

I answered you on that point. We disagree in foundation. I'm not bullying a bully. A bully is using his power to please and benefit himself by causing harm to another. That's not my part. It's like the justified killing of a man. Are you using the same weapon to the same end as a would be killer? Yes. So what distinguishes you? And that's the point.

If you don't want to take on the label of bully, ok, but I still question the value of what you think should be done, whatever you want to call it.

I want a racist and/or a bully to understand that there aren't easy prey so long as I'm walking the boards.

Sounds like ego talking.

That irrational and malicious behavior will come at a cost. If they're pantsed thoroughly enough it might (and in my experience has) slow them down or stop them, send them to easier climes.

It might, but I think there are better ways to go about it.

Contend. Advance an irrational or hateful point until you literally break the weapon in their hands. Some not even then. The last sort are a bit unhinged and by the time you get to that point it's apparent to everyone. That robs them of their power in a forum and marginalizes them to the point where they can rail but not really damage anyone. We have a couple of those here.

Some people may be stubborn and continue an irrational or hateful point, but I'm not persuaded in the least that "pansting" them is the good thing to do.

You saying that always happens?

Probably not.

Or that there aren't many, many instances where you've thought, "Why isn't anyone doing anything about this?"

If I thought about it I might be able to think of a time when I wished the moderators would step in more. Doesn't mean I think people should take it on themselves to "pants" the offender.

I don't accept your judgment and characterization of the act, supra. Now stop bullying me and trying to brow beat me into accepting your opinion.

That time I didn't call you a bully. I said used the bullies tactics. And I think you would agree with that based on your gun example above. If you don't, then can you explain the difference?

I like helping the victim. I don't agree with the pacifist nonsense though.

I'm sorry, were you saying something? Who needs a hug?

Nope. Doesn't work for me.

Why not?

Sure, but that would be bragging. PM me if you want to go into it. Else, its a great way to draw attention to the habits of the bully. And that can pave the way for an exit, voluntary or otherwise.

I'm not sure how you can say this when just above you said you want bullies to know you're walking the board.

But sure, PM me if you have an example.

That's probably why Swift and Twain were popular but not influential.

So maybe we shouldn't try to do it on TOL.

Nothing wrong with that.

Here is another scripture.

Pro 25:21 If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink:
Pro 25:22 For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the LORD shall reward thee.

[kmoney]

Originally Posted by Lon

As I said, there are times I need a whack in the head too. I'm not sure, But I'd guess most see me as fairly gentle. I debate strong, but I wouldn't think I'm verbally abusive.

I've never seen you be verbally abusive.

Well, yeah. I disagree that words can't hurt. They often do.

Just to clarify, I never said that words can't hurt.

You've seen verbally abusive before. Name calling, belittling, angry posted outbursts, etc. Anytime you've seen people jump in and say "Hey, easy there..." or "That was uncalled for" or go to the reports in the woodshed you'll find daily cases.

I meant specific examples of people targeting women.

[PureX]

Originally Posted by fzappa13

"... therefore let thy words be few."

It takes as many words as it takes to be clear. It's not the number of words that matter so much as it's the intent behind them.