[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by Tambora

Already did.

Salvation is by grace and faith is the gift. The feminine noun 'faith' is the antecedent of the pronoun 'this.'

Later

[godrulz]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

Salvation is by grace and faith is the gift. The feminine noun 'faith' is the antecedent of the pronoun 'this.'

Later

Salvation is by grace (grounds) through faith (condition). Salvation is the gift of God, something we cannot earn. Elsewhere, faith is a manward element, a volitional/mental response from us in response to conviction/convincing/truth/Spirit. In your view, faith would be passive and there would be no good reason why God would not give it to all. TULIP/Calvinism is flawed, so why adopt its assumptions? As well, expert Greek grammarian Roberston disagrees with you (as do many other commentaries that actually understand Gk. nuances, which you probably don't). We could say salvation/grace is the gift, but faith is the subjective way to appropriate it. Jn. 3:16 vs Jn. 3:36 In your view, unbelief should be a 'gift' from Satan, not an issue of heart and mind of the human?

[beloved57]

gr

Salvation is by grace (grounds) through faith (condition).

This is works salvation !

[godrulz]

Originally Posted by beloved57

gr



This is works salvation !

Eph. 2:8-10 shows the balance between faith and works. Faith is not a work, Calvinist creep.

[ResLight]

Originally Posted by godrulz

There is no way your book is up there next to the Bible. Charles Taze Russell made similar claims in starting the JW cult (he also attacked Christendom/clergy, etc.).

Charles Taze Russell disclaimed that his writings were equal or that they should replace the Bible. He only claimed that his writings were supported by the Bible and contained many Bible references. Russell stated: "The six volumes of SCRIPTURE STUDIES are not intended to supplant the Bible.” He showed that one should study his writings and accept only what is presented only if the reader should find that what is presented to be in harmony with the Bible. Russell's advice to readers of his works was: "before we would accept anything as being our own personal faith and conviction, we should say, 'I will not take it because these studies say so; I wish to see what the Bible says.'" (Quotes from: Watch Tower, September 15, 1910, article: ""Is the Reading of 'Scripture Studies' Bible Study?")

Charles Taze Russell did not believe in an organization such as Jehovah's Witnesses, and actively preached against any "outward organization" as being the true church. (See: Bible Students Monthly, Volume 7, Number 9 [1915], Under the title, "The Catholic Church -- St. Peter's Kingdom Keys.") Indeed, Russell preached against the kind of sectarian bad tidings of great woe of eternal destruction for most people of the nations that the JWs preach regarding Armageddon. Russell believed that Armageddon was to chastise the people of the nations in preparation for the coming blessings of the kingdom; he did NOT believe that Armageddon was to eternally destroy the people of the nations. Russell certainly did not start a "cult" that he did not believe in, and that he preached against.

Russell's defense of the Bible often did bring him at odds with the teachings of the clergy; Russell's standard, however, was, as he stated concerning his study of the book of Revelation: "As we proceed to set forth our understanding of the symbols of the Revelation, we wish to state most emphatically that we are saying nothing whatever against godly Christians anywhere, at any time, whether in any church or out of any church. We have nothing to say respecting people. We discuss PRINCIPLES, DOCTRINES, ALWAYS; individuals, NEVER! God has [Dv] not commissioned us to discuss people; it is ours to discuss His Word." (The Battle of Armageddon, Foreword, pages iv, v.) Russell certainly did not believe that denominationalism and sectarianism would be allowed to continue into the kingdom, and thus believed that all institutions of men that supported such denominationalism and sectarianism would be destroyed, so that those in those denominations and sects could be blessed and enlightened by God's kingdom.

[godrulz]

There are many more quotes about Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, etc. that you are not quoting that are damning.

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by ResLight

Charles Taze Russell disclaimed that his writings were equal or that they should replace the Bible. He only claimed that his writings were supported by the Bible and contained many Bible references. Russell stated: "The six volumes of SCRIPTURE STUDIES are not intended to supplant the Bible.” He showed that one should study his writings and accept only what is presented only if the reader should find that what is presented to be in harmony with the Bible. Russell's advice to readers of his works was: "before we would accept anything as being our own personal faith and conviction, we should say, 'I will not take it because these studies say so; I wish to see what the Bible says.'" (Quotes from: Watch Tower, September 15, 1910, article: ""Is the Reading of 'Scripture Studies' Bible Study?")


Charles Taze Russell did not believe in an organization such as Jehovah's Witnesses, and actively preached against any "outward organization" as being the true church. (See: Bible Students Monthly, Volume 7, Number 9 [1915], Under the title, "The Catholic Church -- St. Peter's Kingdom Keys.") Indeed, Russell preached against the kind of sectarian bad tidings of great woe of eternal destruction for most people of the nations that the JWs preach regarding Armageddon. Russell believed that Armageddon was to chastise the people of the nations in preparation for the coming blessings of the kingdom; he did NOT believe that Armageddon was to eternally destroy the people of the nations. Russell certainly did not start a "cult" that he did not believe in, and that he preached against.

Russell's defense of the Bible often did bring him at odds with the teachings of the clergy; Russell's standard, however, was, as he stated concerning his study of the book of Revelation: "As we proceed to set forth our understanding of the symbols of the Revelation, we wish to state most emphatically that we are saying nothing whatever against godly Christians anywhere, at any time, whether in any church or out of any church. We have nothing to say respecting people. We discuss PRINCIPLES, DOCTRINES, ALWAYS; individuals, NEVER! God has [Dv] not commissioned us to discuss people; it is ours to discuss His Word." (The Battle of Armageddon, Foreword, pages iv, v.) Russell certainly did not believe that denominationalism and sectarianism would be allowed to continue into the kingdom, and thus believed that all institutions of men that supported such denominationalism and sectarianism would be destroyed, so that those in those denominations and sects could be blessed and enlightened by God's kingdom.

Thank you for your unbiased post, and the information you shared with us.

Going by what you posted it sounds as if this man was fair and balanced. As far as determining for myself the validity of what he wrote, I will wait to see what he wrote, and then compare it to what God has to say in His Holy Bible.

Something that my accuser in this thread has yet to learn how to do (amongst a lot of other things)

Blessings

Doug

[oatmeal]

Romans 12:3

"For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Every man, every believer.

God gives us faith when we believe Romans 10:9-10

It is that faith that is the gift of salvation/righteousness/eternal life/holy spirit

Another aspect of the same gift of eternal life.

oatmeal

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

God gives us faith when we believe Romans 10:9-10

This makes no sense. Another way of putting it:

"God gives us faith when we exercise faith."

It is unintelligible.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by godrulz

Salvation is by grace (grounds) through faith (condition). Salvation is the gift of God, something we cannot earn. Elsewhere, faith is a manward element, a volitional/mental response from us in response to conviction/convincing/truth/Spirit. In your view, faith would be passive and there would be no good reason why God would not give it to all. TULIP/Calvinism is flawed, so why adopt its assumptions?

Faith is a gift. Romans 4 says that Abraham did not waver but "was strengthened in faith giving glory yo God." The verb "was strnegthened" is passive which means that someone acted upon Abraham which resulted in his being strong in faith. It says that he gave the glory to God.

As well, expert Greek grammarian Roberston disagrees with you (as do many other commentaries that actually understand Gk. nuances, which you probably don't).

Expert Grammarians disagree with A.T. Robertson. He admits that an abstract feminine noun may be the antededent of the neuter pronoun. He gives examples which I posted in the op. But then in Ephesians 2:8 he denies that the feminine noun 'faith' is the antecedent of the neuter pronoun. He gives no explanation for it.

We could say salvation/grace is the gift, but faith is the subjective way to appropriate it.

Verse 1 says that the Ephesians were "dead" in their trespasses and sins. It says that God quickened them to life by grace. Their salvation began with God making them alive by grace and they appropriated it by faith as the conesquence. Dead people don't have faith.

P.S. Please quit telling me what you think I don't know about Greek.

[ResLight]

Originally Posted by godrulz

There are many more quotes about Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, etc. that you are not quoting that are damning.

I evidently missed this until today.

I have found many "quotes" of Russell that often actually misrepresent what Russell taught, and by such misrepresentation, made to appear to be points for which Russell should be judged as "condemned/damned". These quotes usually fall into one of more of these categories: (1) The quote is taken out of context, and often is made to appear the very opposite of, or at least something different from, what Russell was actually saying; (2) the quote is being misread to mean something other than what was actually stated; (3) the quote is not actually that of Russell, but of someone else, but attributed to Russell, or a quote that Russell quoted of someone else is presented as in such a manner to make it appear that Russell approved of the teachings of the person being quoted; (4) the quote is concerning a point of disagreement with Russell concerning a doctrine, (most often such quotes fail to actually represent, and often misrepresents why Russell stated what he stated concerning such doctrine); (5) the quote is an actual misquote, in which Russell is quoted or represented as saying something that he never stated.

Such tactics may be found in many websites and forums all over the internet; most of these are posted by some who are simply repeating what others have stated (often with an added twist of their own). Those who originated such quotes bear the greatest responsibility before God, and that responsibility is even greater if that person is actually consecrated to God through Jesus. Such works of deception certainly are not in harmony with God's spirit.

I have been, for many years, responding to such misrepresentations of Russell, on my websites, mainly at:
http://ctr.reslight.net

I do not agree with all that Russell taught, and like every Christian, while growing knowledge, he made mistakes. Every Christian, if he grows in knowledge, will, as truths become better understood, have to replace former error with the truths as they are learned, and this is what Russell also endeavored to do, to the best of the ability that God had given to him.

[godrulz]

Are you a Bible Student groupie or what is your affiliation?

[beloved57]

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Faith unto Salvation or Believing on Christ Acts 16:31

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

This type of converting Faith does not come by the natural man exercising his so called freewill and getting saved thereby, but it [faith or believing on Christ] is the result of the Spirit's Illumination of Christ to spiritual faculties, for except this be the case, none could savingly believe on Christ. The enlightened sinner has spiritual eyes opened to see the spiritual suitableness and preciousness of Jesus Christ Jn 6:40

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The seeing there is not a physical seeing, but a careful mental, attentive seeing with spiritual faculties.

Its a beholding of the Son,

Its defined also as:

of important persons that are looked on with admiration

Also to see Him as Precious 1 Pet 2:7

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The word precious here means: praise of which one is Judged worthy, and its this spiritual estimation of Him that calls forth believing in Him, and this is foreign to the natural will of man !

The Spirit in His Illumination Work, His Revealing Work, is also called the Spirit of wisdom and revelation in the Knowledge of Him, Christ Eph 1:17,18

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

He it is that which prepares us for the Understanding of Divine Truth set forth in the Gospel Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

In the order that we may know the Hope of Our Calling in the Gospel Vs 18

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

2 Thess 2:14

Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

This is what means in Jn 16:13-14

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine [The Head], and shall shew it unto you [ My Church the Body].

There must be a prepatory working of the Holy Spirit before we can Believe on Him savingly or in conversion, Faith is a revealing of Christ into the heart and soul of a Person Gal 1:15-16

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

When He is revealed in us, then we Believe on Him !

[beloved57]

Faith to believe in Christ for Salvation is but one of the many "all spiritual blessings" God has Blessed us With in time, due to the choosing us in Christ before the foundation of the World, and for this it is stated, that in behalf of Christ, it has been given not only to believe on Him, but also to persevere under trial and suffering Eph 1:3-4

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

This means also that those who fall away because of persecution of the Word as here Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.


Lk 8:13 says

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Those that fall away makes it manifest that they could not have been the ones who it was Given to Believe on Him and Suffer for His sake as in Phil 1:29 !

[oldhermit]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

Ephesians 2:8-9:

" For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."

The Calvinist correctly exegetes Paul's statement above showing that faith is the antecedent of the pronoun "this" and is therefore itself the gift of God. But the Arminians deny that faith is the gift of God because the pronoun "this" is neuter and the noun "faith" is feminine. They say that a pronoun and a noun must always agree in gender. Since the pronoun "this" and the noun "faith" do not agree in gender, we must infer that it is the "general idea of salvation" that is the gift of God.

The Arminians show their deficiency in Greek grammar. The word "faith" is an abstract feminine noun. A neuter pronoun may take an abstract feminine noun (afn) as its antecedent. An abstract noun is a noun that that expresses something intangible like faith, hope, love, peace etc. A.T. Robertson who is no friend of Calvinism has acknowledged this on page 704 of his A Grammar of the Greek New Testament. He gives 1 Peter 2:19-20 as an example of the neuter pronoun "this" taking the abstract feminine noun "grace" as its antecedent.

19For THIS is GRACE, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

20For what glory is it, if, when you are buffeted for your faults, you shall take it patiently? but if, when you do well, and suffer for it, you take it patiently, THIS is GRACE with God.

There you have it! A.T. Robertson himself says that a neuter pronoun may take an abstract feminine noun as its antecedent and he gives an example where this occurs twice. But then he says that the afn "faith" in Ephesians 2:8 is not the antecedent of the neuter pronoun "this" and gives no grammatical or theological reason for saying this.

The Arminians re-write the scripture to fit their PRECONCEIVED notions. Their commentaries insert the word "salvation" into the text.

" For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this [salvation] is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast."

The Arminians add to the word of God and devise a freak Greek so they can make it all fit with their PRECONCEIVED notion that faith is not the gift of God.

Very well argued Wile. I enjoyed that. I even added that post to my private folder.