Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Jesus was raised up by God, NOT that Jesus was God. Jesus is a man fathered by God. Jesus went to the cross in his own faith.--
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
You fail to believe the record that God has given of his son.
I believe what's written in the Word, and I believe Jesus when He said He would raise Himself from the dead. We see verses that say, God raised Him, the Spirit of God raised Him and God the Father raised Him. Jesus tells us He had the power and raised Himself. This can only be true if Jesus is God.
John 2:19-21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.
He laid down His life and He took it up again.
John 10:17-19
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon
Jesus said--
Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Yes, Jesus was fully God and fully man. This quote is from Jesus' humanity.
He came into being long before the earth was formed.
We are not told how long that was. But we are told that he is the first of creation
No, NOT the "first of creation." It says "firstborn." Born is not created, and it's talking about His being Lord of every creature because He is the Creator. Premier position - not created.
Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
You keep me up all night again and I will hunt you down.
You own me a nites sleep already.
I will have to ponder on this.
But I have to go to bed now, Its 1 am here and I'm old and tired. My pillow and breathing machine are calling me.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Jesus was not born with this WORD in him. He had to grow in wisdom like every man. But at age 30, God put the WORD in Jesus. With the WORD came deity. When he was on the cross, God took the WORD back so he could die. It was then that Jesus gave up his own spirit and died. Three days later GOD raised him. That is what I get out of the NT.
These are my thoughts friend.
Of course this is totally contrary to the written Word of God. The Word wasn't just IN HIM, He is the Word. The Light wasn't just IN HIM, He is the Light. From Him all things proceed and have their being.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. We see Him all throughout the OT. Jesus is the Doer.... the revelation of God.
We see Him described as the Arm of God here in Isaiah.
Quote:
Isaiah 53
1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 1:9 ---
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Reputation:
May 18th, 2012, 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr
Where Apple?
Jesus was dead, he could not raise himself.
Nowhere does it say that he raised himself.
He said he had the power, but he could not do it. His father did. God took that power back before he died on the cross. Remember him saying "Why have you forsaken me?". What did he mean by that?
God giveth, God taketh back.
Now his God has made him Lord, AMEN
God the Father raised Jesus (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12).
The Holy Spirit is somehow involved in the resurrection of Jesus (Romans 8:11; Romans 1:4).
The Son Himself lays down His life and takes it up again — John 10:17-18
It seems as though all of the Trinity is involved in the Resurrection.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
May 18th, 2012, 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Raven
John 2:18-20
King James Version (KJV)
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
May 18th, 2012, 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
No, NOT the "first of creation." It says "firstborn." Born is not created, and it's talking about His being Lord of every creature because He is the Creator. Premier position - not created.
Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Mat 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Of course this is totally contrary to the written Word of God. The Word wasn't just IN HIM, He is the Word. The Light wasn't just IN HIM, He is the Light. From Him all things proceed and have their being.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist
In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. We see Him all throughout the OT. Jesus is the Doer.... the revelation of God.
We see Him described as the Arm of God here in Isaiah.
How is it contrary to the word?
Jesus has a body (flesh) God put a spirit in hin (spirit)
The body did not create the world, the spirit did.
Jesus had deity, I have posted that.
The question is, WHEN did God put this powerful spirit in him?
If he was born with it he would not have to grow in wisdom.
So it was given to him at age 30 when he was baptized.
How does that conflict with scripture?
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
I have forgot you BR, I just did not have time today to think about it. I will get back to you after I rewrite the verse so I don't have to think. (just kidding)
You do come up with some doozy questions friend.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
God the Father raised Jesus (Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12).
The Holy Spirit is somehow involved in the resurrection of Jesus (Romans 8:11; Romans 1:4).
The Son Himself lays down His life and takes it up again — John 10:17-18
It seems as though all of the Trinity is involved in the Resurrection.
I agree somewhat, but why is BR verse worded the way it is?
We know that the spirit he had had the power, but he was dead and could not use it himself.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 1:9 ---
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Reputation:
May 19th, 2012, 06:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr
I agree somewhat, but why is BR verse worded the way it is?
If you are talking about the verse that says "destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up," Jesus was talking about Himself having the power to raise Himself up from the dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr
We know that the spirit he had had the power, but he was dead and could not use it himself.
Christ did not die. Jesus died. Had Christ been dead He would not have been able to do what the Father told Him He had the power to do.
John 10:17 -- “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
John10:18 -- No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Jesus has a body (flesh) God put a spirit in hin (spirit)
The body did not create the world, the spirit did.
Jesus had deity, I have posted that.
The question is, WHEN did God put this powerful spirit in him?
If he was born with it he would not have to grow in wisdom.
So it was given to him at age 30 when he was baptized.
God gave him his power at age 30. Why was he baptized? To receive the image spirit from his father.
Most trins do not take some of these verses into consideration. Just like I did the verse from BR.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Jesus has a body (flesh) God put a spirit in hin (spirit)
The body did not create the world, the spirit did.
Jesus had deity, I have posted that.
The question is, WHEN did God put this powerful spirit in him?
If he was born with it he would not have to grow in wisdom.
So it was given to him at age 30 when he was baptized.
How does that conflict with scripture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr Jesus was not born with this WORD in him. He had to grow in wisdom like every man. But at age 30, God put the WORD in Jesus. With the WORD came deity. When he was on the cross, God took the WORD back so he could die. It was then that Jesus gave up his own spirit and died. Three days later GOD raised him. That is what I get out of the NT.
These are my thoughts friend.
God did not put a Spirit in him. He was God (Spirit) from the beginning and became flesh to dwell among us. Spirit put on flesh.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Jesus had a divine nature (Creator from the beginning).
Jesus had a human nature (born of woman).
His human nature grew in wisdom.
His divine nature was all-knowing.
1 Corinthians 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Linear Mode
