toldailytopic: Objectively, when does a person become a person? At conception? Or at
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So, are you saying that He, God, has also ordained or chosen that some are to be aborted? That they are the "not-chosen" ones?
Nope, I'm just saying that we are "people" from the foundation of the world. From before our birth or conception. Each human life is of inestimable value.
Granite and I have already stated that zygotes are alive. The life part exists before conception. No one here is debating that, nor has it ever been an issue.
They don't seem able to recognize the difference.
Theocrats are Social Darwinists.
Christianity has nothing applicable, appropriate, or worthwhile to offer the 21st century.
A question about balancing the rights of two persons:
Does a mother have the right to terminate a zygote?
Does a zygote have the right to terminate its mother?
Bump
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
I accept the soul enters the body at the time God defines you as a sinner. since only humans can sin. Most christian denominations use Ps. 51 as a proof passage.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 21st, 2012, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Granite
Well for me the question doesn't quite work because I don't think a zygote's a person. Makes it a non-sequitar, kind of.
QUESTION: What, in your opinion, does a living human embryo lack that would somehow make it a person?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 21st, 2012, 05:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lighe
I'm wondering how to argue with those who say a person is not a living soul tell the first breath of air.
Even setting the issue of personhood aside, the embryo is demonstrably a living human being, and should---on that basis alone---be protected and nurtured as such.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
I don't think my opinion or anybody else's is of any importance. I would like to think the study and logic of what is written by God has His opinion and that will be what He uses at our Judgment day. Genesis One suggest strongly that organisms reproduce after their Kind. I'm a person so my kid is a person. Once the DNA is together and he has a soul the kid lacks nothing.
You can call me whatever you like but I still won't be quiet on God's truths.
The actual idea proponents of "free will" have is there is no God we have to obey. We can do whatever we damn well want.
And -behind that- the idea that humans are "basically good". ( Lighthouse only needs to read the daily news to know THAT isn't true. )
Our Creator says not to murder (Exodus 20:13). Yet, when we want to commit abortion we call it "Pro-Choice". Just a matter of our free will.
Never occurs to any of 'em that -by arranging opportunities for abortion- the Lord also arranges His opportunity to exercise justice against us murderers.
Even the Devil glorifies God.
When the Most High permits (even arranges opportunity for) evil, it's opportunity to punish evil, as well. To show how much He hates sin.
And -since we aren't "basically good"- don't take much to arrange THAT.
"A dog barks when his master is attacked.
I would be a coward if I saw that God's truth
is attacked and yet would remain silent."
John Calvin
Referring to the second sentence: Nobody has to obey God! Adam didn't, but he and we have to suffer the consequences.
Real Sorcerer denies personhood based on what people are thinking. Which, to me, is a lot worse than denying it based on skin colour. At least you can see what colour a person is.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 21st, 2012, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Sorceror
Thoughts.
So, then, is an individual in a deep coma---with no sense of awareness or conscious thoughts---somehow "no longer a person"? How about the severely mentally handicapped---are they somehow "less human" or "lesser persons" due to their extremely diminished capacity for thought?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Referring to the second sentence: Nobody has to obey God! Adam didn't, but he and we have to suffer the consequences.
I'm on a different page when I reconize that Adam wasn't a sinner. He wasn't born from a sinful woman. People here waste there time talking about Adam's free will when they don't understand it.
Real Sorcerer denies personhood based on what people are thinking. Which, to me, is a lot worse than denying it based on skin colour. At least you can see what colour a person is.
I don't shirk away from truth just because it's ugly or might have bad connotations. Personally I still think you guys are jumping to the worst possible conclusions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
So, then, is an individual in a deep coma---with no sense of awareness or conscious thoughts---somehow "no longer a person"? How about the severely mentally handicapped---are they somehow "less human" or "lesser persons" due to their extremely diminished capacity for thought?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
It's possible. I think more research should be done on the topic. Some people recover from these conditions, while others don't for various reasons. I can say for certain about when personhood is first gained and when it is lost (aka death), but I'm less sure whether it can be lost or regained during the course of your life. So for now I'm going to say it's possible.
So, then, is an individual in a deep coma---with no sense of awareness or conscious thoughts---somehow "no longer a person"? How about the severely mentally handicapped---are they somehow "less human" or "lesser persons" due to their extremely diminished capacity for thought?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Terry Scheivo was no loner a person. Everything that made Terry a person (her soul) went on to be with God (assuming she was Christian) when her brain died.
The severely mentally handicapped are still persons because they still have their soul.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
May 21st, 2012, 05:03 PM
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