From Birth to Death, Man is a Hopeless Sinner that Cannot Please God
ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
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Right Winger
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Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
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May 23rd, 2012, 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
The Old Testament is a record of man's failure to please a Holy God.
No, it isn't, as proven by the passages I quoted about how people pleased God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
What are you doing in the Old Testament?
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Slogan/motto:
"The Chief End of Me Is To Love GOD & Enjoy Him Forever!"
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May 23rd, 2012, 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald
:: looks over previous posts in the thread ::
I don't appear to have made that claim. If you see where I have, would you mind pointing it out?
Thanks!
i wasn't accusing you friend. I was just seeing if you believed that you were a sinner. Because to know one's self as a sinner is a blessed thing. Because as we know..."the wages of sin is death". So wouldn't make sense to also believe in the other side of the coin?? Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I promise you. You won't be disappointed. What do you have to lose?
Your going to die anyway. That's the "foolishness" the Bible describes in those who refuse to believe in the "Good News" of the Gospel.
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Atheist
More right than left
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"Do what thou wilt" shall be the hole in the floor.
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May 23rd, 2012, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeraphimsCherub
i wasn't accusing you friend. I was just seeing if you believed that you were a sinner. Because to know one's self as a sinner is a blessed thing. Because as we know..."the wages of sin is death". So wouldn't make sense to also believe in the other side of the coin?? Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
I promise you. You won't be disappointed. What do you have to lose?
Your going to die anyway. That's the "foolishness" the Bible describes in those who refuse to believe in the "Good News" of the Gospel.
Thank you, Blaise Pascal.
Sorry, but if the believers around here are to be (the joke is unavoidable) believed, Heaven is likely to be populated by Bill Bright and a huge number of grandmothers.
Not a particularly interesting place to spend eternity, if you ask me.
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
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May 23rd, 2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuineoriginal
No, it isn't, as proven by the passages I quoted about how people pleased God.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
You have been corrected.
You have not yet come to the realization that you are a sinner.
God does NOT accept the works or the obedience of sinners for salvation. He is NOT the minister of sin.
As long as you think that you are okay you will not come to Christ to be saved.
All of the prophets, Patriarchs and some apostles confessed that they were sinners. Many of them demonstrated the fact that they were sinners by their actions. In spite of their sinfulness God accomplished his purpose through them.
Mr. Pate, ignore me if you will, but if you stick to the above statement, you are being dishonest.
Let's start at the beginning. Where did the Patriarchs confess that they were sinners? Chapter and verse, please.
Slogan/motto:
Being led into relationships by urgings of love which arise and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within my heart, is always 'God-righteous' even if I have to transgress the Ten Commandments.
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May 23rd, 2012, 11:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Yes it is true.
The only way that you can please God is by having faith in His Son Jesus Christ.
When you do that God seals you with the Holy Spirit and places you "IN CHRIST."
This does not change your earthly body which has not yet been redeemed, Romans 8:23. Spiritually you are saved. Physically you are still a sinner and will die a sinner.
No. What you are saying (i.e. from Birth to death man is a hopeless Sinner that cannot please God) is not supported by KJV N.T. revelations. in fact it opposes fundamental revelations in the KJV N.T. Fact is, it is Antichrist.
Abraham transgressed the laws and he was very pleasing to God for doing just that. He was not a Sinner for doing that, instead he was glorified by God and rewarded with the highest God given order . . . . i.e. the promise of the Spirit. Abraham is our example of how to achieved grace of God.
Abraham had to see that the laws is foolishness and sin was nothing (a made up thing for temporary use) before he could qualify for guidance under the Spirit. He had to see the folly that is the laws and sin, in order to de-wax gross his own heart. The laws and the idea of sin are veils which covers one heart and keep one unaware or dead within. They are curses. Abraham had to see the folly that is the laws and sin, in order to be 'born again', i.e. in order to awaken to his own spirit or heart. Only then could he access and use the Spirit of Jesus. Only then could he get the promise of the Spirit. Abraham had to demonstrate his rise above the law very absolutely. He had to absolutely willingly transgress the law, not by simply killing a stranger, but by killing his own son. This was not for God's edification. This was for the edification of unaware humans. You apparently did not get the message.
God has justified the ungodly (i.e. the transgressing of the law) for all who follow Abraham by transgressing the laws in order to obey God unconditionally (i.e. by unconditionally obeying the Spirit). The laws were simply a schoolmaster to bring one onto spiritual awareness and Christ then they are thrown away. They have served their usefulness, now they must be absolutely discarded. For those under grace, it is as if the law and sin was never created and they never existed. The law and sin are simply for temporary use by the unaware, i.e. until they become spiritually aware. These are not eternal laws from God.
Romans: 6 verse: 14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
This verse does not say that one shall not do the things that were deemed sinful under the law. Because of our infirmities we will inevitably do those things.
This verse simply says that one will not get sin when one transgress the law when one is under grace of God. Fact is no one can uphold the laws to the require levels. So now we have God given freedom and justification to transgress the laws and not get sin, when we are led into our works by the Spirit.
A God given justification does not mean that you can do something and then be forgiven. It means that you have a God given right to do that thing.
Grace is not for tomorrow. Grace is for now. Grace was introduced and available to those under the laws for the past 2000 odd years.
If one has a justification to drive north on a one way street. This does not mean that if I drive north on that one way street, I will be wrong but will be forgiven. If you come with that argument in court you will be crushed by the judge.
Fact is those under grace of God have God given justification to transgress the laws and get no sin, i.e. because they are led by the Spirit. And if you say other wise, you will be crushed under God's feet.
Mark 3:29 but whoever may blaspheme against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"
God justified the ungodly (the transgression of the Ten Commandments) for Abraham and his seed, when they led by the Spirit. Abraham earned the 'gift of the Spirit' (for himself and his seed) from God, for just this reason. Do not be blaspheming this right, that they have been given by God, under the Spirit.
Abraham earned this gift of the Spirit by becoming aware of his own spirit and seeing (discerning) the truth with respect to the law and sin. He came to the realization, within his own heart, that the Ten Commandments and sin are foolishness (both for him and for God) when it comes to people who are aware of their own hearts or spirits.
Having reached this point then another appraoch to guidance became necessary. What was appropriate now was righteousness of God with out any laws . . . . that is unconditional obedience to the Spirit and not at all obedience to laws. . . . . . i.e. absolute freedom from all laws and all sin.
You are in a very seriously bad position here. Your heart is clearly still waxed gross (i.e. covered over by the law and sin and other conditioning). You have not crossed over the hurdle (i.e. the un-veiling of your heart) which Abraham crosses a long time ago, You cannot be delivering Truth for you will not be and are not, aware of Truth. One whose heart is waxed grossed is not given to know Truth. You would inevitably be a false prophet who came in Jesus name when you attempt to deliver anything to aspiring Christians. You will misguide many. You will be a curse to aspiring Christians, the likes of the unaware mentioned in Galatians: 2 verse: 4.
Esteem-ers of the law disguise themselves in so many ways so as to come among aspiring Christians, so as to dismiss the liberty which aspiring Christians and actualized Christians have in Christ, so as to bring them back to bondage under the law . . . . i.e. evil intent with an Antichrist agenda.
Last edited by Gurucam; May 24th, 2012 at 05:07 AM.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Reputation:
May 24th, 2012, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurucam
No. What you are saying (i.e. from Birth to death man is a hopeless Sinner that cannot please God) is not supported by KJV N.T. revelations. in fact it opposes fundamental revelations in the KJV N.T. Fact is, it is Antichrist.
Abraham transgressed the laws and he was very pleasing to God for doing just that. He was not a Sinner for doing that, instead he was glorified by God and rewarded with the highest God given order . . . . i.e. the promise of the Spirit. Abraham is our example of how to achieved grace of God.
Abraham had to see that the laws is foolishness and sin was nothing (a made up thing for temporary use) before he could qualify for guidance under the Spirit. He had to see the folly that is the laws and sin, in order to de-wax gross his own heart. The laws and the idea of sin are veils which covers one heart and keep one unaware or dead within. They are curses. Abraham had to see the folly that is the laws and sin, in order to be 'born again', i.e. in order to awaken to his own spirit or heart. Only then could he access and use the Spirit of Jesus. Only then could he get the promise of the Spirit. Abraham had to demonstrate his rise above the law very absolutely. He had to absolutely willingly transgress the law, not by simply killing a stranger, but by killing his own son. This was not for God's edification. This was for the edification of unaware humans. You apparently did not get the message.
God has justified the ungodly (i.e. the transgressing of the law) for all who follow Abraham by transgressing the laws in order to obey God unconditionally (i.e. by unconditionally obeying the Spirit). The laws were simply a schoolmaster to bring one onto spiritual awareness and Christ then they are thrown away. They have served their usefulness, now they must be absolutely discarded. For those under grace, it is as if the law and sin was never created and they never existed. The law and sin are simply for temporary use by the unaware, i.e. until they become spiritually aware. These are not eternal laws from God.
Romans: 6 verse: 14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
This verse does not say that one shall not do the things that were deemed sinful under the law. Because of our infirmities we will inevitably do those things.
This verse simply says that one will not get sin when one transgress the law when one is under grace of God. Fact is no one can uphold the laws to the require levels. So now we have God given freedom and justification to transgress the laws and not get sin, when we are led into our works by the Spirit.
A God given justification does not mean that you can do something and then be forgiven. It means that you have a God given right to do that thing.
Grace is not for tomorrow. Grace is for now. Grace was introduced and available to those under the laws for the past 2000 odd years.
If one has a justification to drive north on a one way street. This does not mean that if I drive north on that one way street, I will be wrong but will be forgiven. If you come with that argument in court you will be crushed by the judge.
Fact is those under grace of God have God given justification to transgress the laws and get no sin, i.e. because they are led by the Spirit. And if you say other wise, you will be crushed under God's feet.
Mark 3:29 but whoever may blaspheme against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"
God justified the ungodly (the transgression of the Ten Commandments) for Abraham and his seed, when they led by the Spirit. Abraham earned the 'gift of the Spirit' (for himself and his seed) from God, for just this reason. Do not be blaspheming this right, that they have been given by God, under the Spirit.
Abraham earned this gift of the Spirit by becoming aware of his own spirit and seeing (discerning) the truth with respect to the law and sin. He came to the realization, within his own heart, that the Ten Commandments and sin are foolishness (both for him and for God) when it comes to people who are aware of their own hearts or spirits.
Having reached this point then another appraoch to guidance became necessary. What was appropriate now was righteousness of God with out any laws . . . . that is unconditional obedience to the Spirit and not at all obedience to laws. . . . . . i.e. absolute freedom from all laws and all sin.
You are in a very seriously bad position here. Your heart is clearly still waxed gross (i.e. covered over by the law and sin and other conditioning). You have not crossed over the hurdle (i.e. the un-veiling of your heart) which Abraham crosses a long time ago, You cannot be delivering Truth for you will not be and are not, aware of Truth. One whose heart is waxed grossed is not given to know Truth. You would inevitably be a false prophet who came in Jesus name when you attempt to deliver anything to aspiring Christians. You will misguide many. You will be a curse to aspiring Christians, the likes of the unaware mentioned in Galatians: 2 verse: 4.
Esteem-ers of the law disguise themselves in so many ways so as to come among aspiring Christians, so as to dismiss the liberty which aspiring Christians and actualized Christians have in Christ, so as to bring them back to bondage under the law . . . . i.e. evil intent with an Antichrist agenda.
Paul said, "Wherefore the law is Holy, and the commandment holy, AND JUST AND GOOD, Romans 7:12.
The law reveals the nature and character of God.
Christ removed us from the law because it was contrary to us, Colossians 2:14.
The starter of this thread does not believe what he says, because he believes a man prior to New Birth can Believe on Christ and get saved. The sinner did this while in the flesh if he was not born again when he did it.
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Slogan/motto:
Being led into relationships by urgings of love which arise and are sustained naturally and spontaneously within my heart, is always 'God-righteous' even if I have to transgress the Ten Commandments.
Reputation:
May 24th, 2012, 08:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Paul said, "Wherefore the law is Holy, and the commandment holy, AND JUST AND GOOD, Romans 7:12.
The law reveals the nature and character of God.
Christ removed us from the law because it was contrary to us, Colossians 2:14.
More later.
Your quoted revelation cannot cancel Romans 3:19 What so ever the law says it say for those under the laws.
In fact Romans 3:19 supports Romans 7:12 and confirms that the law is just and good for some people and not everyone.
Your quoted revelation cannot cancel Romans: 6 verse: 14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Your quoted revelation cannot cancel Romans: 3 verse: 21 - Now righteousness of God without the Ten Commandments is manifested.
"Wherefore the law is Holy, and the commandment holy, AND JUST AND GOOD" an indeed it is just and good for some people. However it killeth others and they are a curse for others (re. Galatians: 3 verses: 21 & 22 and 2 Corinthians: 3 verses: 6 & 7).
Your quoted revelation cannot cancel Galatians: 3 verses: 21 & 22 and 2 Corinthians: 3 verses: 6 & 7
You want to bring everyone under the laws and that is Antichrist and Satanic. It is people who esteem the law and sought to put everyone under the law (in accordance with Galatians: 2 verse: 4) that ably aided the crucifixion of Jesus. Your posturing put you among them.
If the law is good and just but it also killeth and is a curse. Then it must be good and just for some and it must a curse for others.
Stop posturing like a lemon used car sales man. That is, Satanic and Antichrist behavior.
That is the kind of rot that passed for Christianity for the past 2000 odd years. That is why many are called and few chosen. False prophets who came in Jesus' name have dominated what passed for Christianity for the past 2000 odd years. False prophets (the likes of the unaware mentioned in Galatians: 2 verse: 4) have been operating from within what passed for Christianity, for the past 2000 odd years and they have been misguiding many from within. These false prophets (who came in Jesus' name) are actually Moses-ians pretending to be Christians. The likes of these people had aided the crucifixion of Jesus and after that, they continue to persecute Jesus, His message, aspiring Christians and Christians. This is you.
You are part of that chain of false prophets (yet, may be unwittingly).
If you believe that you are something, i.e. if you believe that you have the right to deliver Truth to aspiring Christians, then you cannot be making confusion with revelation from the KJV N.T. God is not the author of confusion. It is given for all revelations in the KJV N.T. to work together in perfect harmony and perfect sense. If you cannot find that settled ground in the KJV N.T., you are still unaware, you are still 'the dead'. Then be a learner and do not attempt to teach aspiring Christians.
Your posturing here reveals your nature and character.
Last edited by Gurucam; May 24th, 2012 at 08:56 AM.
The starter of this thread does not believe what he says, because he believes a man prior to New Birth can Believe on Christ and get saved. The sinner did this while in the flesh if he was not born again when he did it.
So one needs to be saved before he can be saved? That makes sense:
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
May 24th, 2012, 09:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
The Old Testament is a record of man's failure to please a Holy God.
All of the prophets, Patriarchs and some apostles confessed that they were sinners. Many of them demonstrated the fact that they were sinners by their actions. In spite of their sinfulness God accomplished his purpose through them.
The Old Testament does not say that prophets and Patriarchs were justified by works or an infusion of righteousness. What it does say is that they were justified by faith.
2:8.
I'm sorry to see that you dont think Jesus powerful enough to justify us..
i guess Jesus can only cover us...
gee... my Jesus seems to be more powerful than yours...
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