Not now, he is standing in the corner. He needs a spanking! I think I saw Nick come in there and maybe I saw Stripe, then I may be imaging this? One thing, we will see if he changes, anyone want to bet he learns a lesson?
Well, if you went to BE's KGOV.com he doesn't agree with you.
BE and I disagree on a lot of things.
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Originally Posted by Lon
Regardless of demonstrable harm?
As opposed to phantom harm, which is an excuse most homophobes cling to in order to hide their true colors.
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Originally Posted by Lon
Which controversial issue? Abortion?
Yes, abortion.
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Originally Posted by Lon
On a forum we are somewhat beyond actions and proceeding into values and intents (unless someone is a member on TOL from prison).
I'm not sure if that's the same angle you were thinking or not.
I'm not quite sure what you are getting at.
To rephrase. Some pro-choicers view all pro-lifers as wicked, and conversely some pro-lifers view all pro-choicers as wicked. Both views are over-simplistic, and miss the truth of the issue - that the majority on both sides have good intentions but disagree on where the greater good lies.
Intolerance is not warranted here, even if we accept LH's claim that intolerance to wickedness is a virtue.
"What if the Hokie Pokie is really what it's all about?"
Wickedness is something that directly harms someone without justification. Homosexuality doesn't remotely fall under that description.
Keep telling yourself that.
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You are not intolerant to wickedness, but to people doing something you don't approve of, regardless of demonstrable harm. This behavior is not a virtue.
Intolerant of sin?
Imagine that!
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As to abortion, prima facie you may have a better case to be intolerant. But you suffer from the same problem that ironically plagues The Horn - an inability to notice that there is a reason this issue is controversial, and that well meaning people can disagree on this issue without either being wicked.
It goes beyond that - it's intolerance of sinners. Aren't we all sinners?
But the main problem with your statement is an inability to distinguish between religious "sin" (which should be between a man and his God) and demonstrable harm. It is your condemnation of the first that makes your intolerance wrong.
To illustrate, do you think it is wrong for Muslims in a predominantly Muslim country to mistreat Christian "Infidels" based on their interpretation of Islam?
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Being pro-murder cannot not be wicked.
Forcing rape victims (in addition to the initial trauma) to have their body used against their will is likewise "wicked".
Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. I understand why you would prefer one to the other, and wouldn't call you wicked just because of that. Most hardcore pro-lifers aren't able to reach a similar understanding of their opponents.
"What if the Hokie Pokie is really what it's all about?"
It goes beyond that - it's intolerance of sinners. Aren't we all sinners?
No. I am no longer a slave to sin. I have been made the very righteousness of God in Him who knew no sin, but became sin for us.
But, yes, I hate sinners. So does God: Psalm 5:4-6, specifically v5. And that's just one passage among many that state God hates sinners.
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But the main problem with your statement is an inability to distinguish between religious "sin" (which should be between a man and his God) and demonstrable harm. It is your condemnation of the first that makes your intolerance wrong.
God commanded me to judge righteously. Sin is not just between man and God. It never has been. And just because the harm, or capacity for, cannot be tangibly demonstrated in all cases does not mean it isn't there. Sometimes it just means people are too blind to see it, usually wilfully.
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To illustrate, do you think it is wrong for Muslims in a predominantly Muslim country to mistreat Christian "Infidels" based on their interpretation of Islam?
Islam is wrong, period.
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Forcing rape victims (in addition to the initial trauma) to have their body used against their will is likewise "wicked".
Is this about abortion?
If so, murder is worse than carrying a child of rape to term, allowing it to have a chance at life. And murder is the only one of these two options that is wicked.
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Sometimes you have to choose between the lesser of two evils. I understand why you would prefer one to the other, and wouldn't call you wicked just because of that. Most hardcore pro-lifers aren't able to reach a similar understanding of their opponents.
No. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and I refuse to choose evil. I will not do evil so that good may come of it.
Seriously, if you're going to argue you should really be prepared; this is just sad.
No. I am no longer a slave to sin. I have been made the very righteousness of God in Him who knew no sin, but became sin for us.
But, yes, I hate sinners. So does God: Psalm 5:4-6, specifically v5. And that's just one passage among many that state God hates sinners.
God commanded me to judge righteously. Sin is not just between man and God. It never has been. And just because the harm, or capacity for, cannot be tangibly demonstrated in all cases does not mean it isn't there. Sometimes it just means people are too blind to see it, usually wilfully.
Islam is wrong, period.
Is this about abortion?
If so, murder is worse than carrying a child of rape to term, allowing it to have a chance at life. And murder is the only one of these two options that is wicked.
No. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and I refuse to choose evil. I will not do evil so that good may come of it.
Seriously, if you're going to argue you should really be prepared; this is just sad.
Amen, well said.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lighthouse again
No. I am no longer a slave to sin. I have been made the very righteousness of God in Him who knew no sin, but became sin for us.
But, yes, I hate sinners. So does God: Psalm 5:4-6, specifically v5. And that's just one passage among many that state God hates sinners.
But you are not God, and His relationship with sinners is not for you to judge.
And if anyone believes that you are without sin, I have a bridge to sell them.
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse
God commanded me to judge righteously. Sin is not just between man and God. It never has been. And just because the harm, or capacity for, cannot be tangibly demonstrated in all cases does not mean it isn't there. Sometimes it just means people are too blind to see it, usually wilfully.
Offenses between man and God can be taken care of between a man and his God. Unless God is so feeble that he needs your help to govern His relationship with his creations.
Offenses between man and man must be taken care of between men.
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Islam is wrong, period.
So are you.
By looking at a Muslim mistreating an "infidel", you can at least understand how you look to other people.
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse
If so, murder is worse than carrying a child of rape to term, allowing it to have a chance at life. And murder is the only one of these two options that is wicked.
It is possibly worse, and I conceded that a reasonable case can be made to that effect.
But that doesn't mean that forcing a rape victim to have her body used against her will isn't in itself a wrong.
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse
No. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and I refuse to choose evil. I will not do evil so that good may come of it.
That is PRECISELY what you are doing. Unfortunately, you are too obtuse to see it.
I don't know how you convince yourself that forcing rape victims to lose sovereignty over their body for another 9 months is not something that should be avoided (even if it doesn't justify an abortion).
As long as you and your fellow hardline pro-lifers beat that drum, your cause will continue to be ignored.
"What if the Hokie Pokie is really what it's all about?"
No. I am no longer a slave to sin. I have been made the very righteousness of God in Him who knew no sin, but became sin for us.
But, yes, I hate sinners. So does God: Psalm 5:4-6, specifically v5. And that's just one passage among many that state God hates sinners.
God commanded me to judge righteously. Sin is not just between man and God. It never has been. And just because the harm, or capacity for, cannot be tangibly demonstrated in all cases does not mean it isn't there. Sometimes it just means people are too blind to see it, usually wilfully.
Islam is wrong, period.
Is this about abortion?
If so, murder is worse than carrying a child of rape to term, allowing it to have a chance at life. And murder is the only one of these two options that is wicked.
No. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and I refuse to choose evil. I will not do evil so that good may come of it.
Seriously, if you're going to argue you should really be prepared; this is just sad.
God does things that would be considered evil if humans were to do them so that good can come about, most of the time he uses humans to bring about his cause ...... not sure what to make of that myself other than to say I would hope that he would make his voice audible and clear if I were to do such a thing and that I would be victorious from the man made persecution that may result.
I think that is the biggest factor in knowing if someone is diong something that god wants which would ordinarily be a crime is if they suffer no consequences for it and if God delivers up that individual or group of peoples enemys on a platter for them.
Like say if God wanted a group to take down the US govt, the plan would succeed and the individuals would be immune from prosecution as all thoes that would stand agaist them would be dead.
But you are not God, and His relationship with sinners is not for you to judge.
He's already made His relationship with sinners clear. I'm not judging Him for it.
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And if anyone believes that you are without sin, I have a bridge to sell them.
He took my sin from me and nailed it to the cross. He says I am without sin. I believe Him; I don't believe you.
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Offenses between man and God can be taken care of between a man and his God. Unless God is so feeble that he needs your help to govern His relationship with his creations.
I never said I should be responsible for cleaning others of sin. All I'm responsible for, because God asked it of me, is pointing out others sin to them and pointing them to Christ; in regard to sin, that is. However, when that sin crosses the line into an act worthy of criminalization then I am responsible for calling for the punishment of said act, apart from the sin factor.
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Offenses between man and man must be taken care of between men.
No kidding.
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So are you.
Prove it.
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By looking at a Muslim mistreating an "infidel", you can at least understand how you look to other people.
Maybe how I look to idiots who can't tell the difference between calling something a sin, or heresy and actually killing people for it.
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It is possibly worse, and I conceded that a reasonable case can be made to that effect.
You're a moron.
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But that doesn't mean that forcing a rape victim to have her body used against her will isn't in itself a wrong.
That depends on how her body is being used...
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That is PRECISELY what you are doing. Unfortunately, you are too obtuse to see it.
You're an idiot.
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I don't know how you convince yourself that forcing rape victims to lose sovereignty over their body for another 9 months is not something that should be avoided (even if it doesn't justify an abortion).
It isn't their body, pinhead.
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As long as you and your fellow hardline pro-lifers beat that drum, your cause will continue to be ignored.
Red Foreman called...
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Originally Posted by highlife
God does things that would be considered evil if humans were to do them so that good can come about, most of the time he uses humans to bring about his cause ...... not sure what to make of that myself other than to say I would hope that he would make his voice audible and clear if I were to do such a thing and that I would be victorious from the man made persecution that may result.
Just because you think it's evil doesn't mean it is.
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I think that is the biggest factor in knowing if someone is diong something that god wants which would ordinarily be a crime is if they suffer no consequences for it and if God delivers up that individual or group of peoples enemys on a platter for them.
Go to rehab and sober up, then come back.
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Like say if God wanted a group to take down the US govt, the plan would succeed and the individuals would be immune from prosecution as all thoes that would stand agaist them would be dead.
Not necessarily. Sometimes people who do what God wants are arrested, prosecuted, etc. for it.
Slogan/motto:
Of course you realize this means war! ~ Bugs Bunny
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May 24th, 2012, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Eeset
OK. What is wrong with that picture is you never had either experience yet you would judge others.
Is killing a baby EVER right, Eeset? I have also never had the experience of killing a baby, however, what I have had (as well as many other women) was an experience that was significantly more relevant than those who would kill their children.
We gave LIFE regardless of the circumstances. Rather than taking the selfish, easy way out, there are women who actually live up to their responsibility by allowing their children to live and thrive.
So yes ... it is perfectly acceptable for individuals to make the judgment that abortion is unacceptable and flat out wrong and that giving life is the moral and healthier alternative.
"Hatred is the coward's revenge for being intimidated." ~ George Bernard Shaw
believe it!
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