[stephengoswami]

There is much contradiction between religions about the nature of heaven, hell and salvation even among Christian sects. Some Jews and extremists Muslims say that Jesus is already in hell, under eternal torment, while their people will have eternal enjoyment in future heaven.
In the worldly religions and popular Christianity, heaven is the place of enjoyment and hell is place of suffering. This idea is not compatible with Christ’s exemplified teaching and the experience of this world. He says that by the cross those who are united with him, bears much abiding and wholesome fruits. Everyone and everything is known by the fruit.
Look at this world. Here people bear good fruit by painstaking patience and those who try to enjoy life by avoiding pains and cares are dissipated and destroyed. People build themselves up, their career and progeny, with care and toil. Yes they have a joy as a mother have, after a baby is born after much travail, as a father has, after bringing up a child successfully, ready to face the world, a teacher has when the student pass the exams, a social worker gets when reforming an antisocial. These are all fruits of bearing responsibility with patience accompanied by true joy and satisfaction.

So Jesus bears the cross and tells us to follow him. Love inspires one to bear the sin and infirmities of others and love is God’s true nature. But selfish people avoid love-spiritual, to escape from trouble and burden. They seek vain excitements resulting in physical and spiritual suicide, slow or fast. Slow suicide is sin, sex, drug and drink addiction, foolish non-productive enjoyments etc. Fast suicide is homicide to avoid suffering, though futilely. This state is hell like. So hell is called the place of eternal death or more appropriate name will be eternal suicide, dying of the personality as we see in mad people even here. Practically, majority people running after enjoyment-excitement are going the wide way of perdition. Only a small number of people take the strait gate of heavenly productivity. Jesus tells it in Luke 13-24.

John the Baptist tells that we have to bear the heavenly fruits by painful repentance or we shall be cut down. The real heaven is wholesome abiding fruit bearing state. Hells also have fruits but all destructive. As in the world a drunkard generates other drunkards, gambler other gamblers, a goon other goons all destroying themselves. But a good one creates good children by longsuffering love to get ascendency over them. So a caring, cross bearing heaven gains ascendancy over all the hells by its fruits- loving, united, persevering, productive children. The false paradises of sensual enjoyment, which are hells in fact, presented before us by other religions and popular Christianity too will be destroying themselves by their rotting numerous fruits, while the cross bearing paradise will ascend by their abiding fruits. But the blind fallen people will perceive this paradise as a hell, the place of torment and punishment. So their erroneous conclusion would be Jesus is in hell undergoing eternal torment.
Yes! Eternal Jesus is atoning-rectifying our sin-weakness voluntarily to redeem us, eternally, not only momentarily in ancient past. To be with us who are worse than Judas is cross itself. Often I had betrayed him. But again and again he saved me ignoring past betrayals, knowing well that I shall betray him again. He exposes himself to all our all stinking vileness, to which blind we are mercifully unexposed.
But they foolishly perceive that as taking punishments. He is constantly making new paradise with the redeemed souls thus saved. But the worldly people, including the namesake Christians can’t perceive that, as a blessed existence. They shall call it hell of torment. On the other hand they contemplate an unproductive paradise of just singing, dancing and flattering a false God, here and hereafter. They will not hear about a cross bearing paradise. To be popular, Christian leaders assert that Jesus is now in complete bliss free from the cross. But Christ appears frequently with cross on his shoulder even now in many apparitions to our people. From the crucified Christ our salvation comes. in the crucified form we adore him.

Jesus is the embodiment of love, which always cares for the loved ones. That means carrying their burdens. If a frail penitent sinner comes to him for help he comes near him and helps to overcome sin again and again. That is a burden. St. Peter cried to Jesus, “Lord, depart from me, a sinner,” meaning that “Lord go away. I am a persistent prickly sinner, sure to hurt you, by my temper, foul talk, ingratitude and disloyalty. As I love you I want to save you from that hurt”.

Surely, Peter hurt Jesus many times. But Christ did not go away. So every sinner, every one of us is bound to hurt him constantly. By this fruitful cross bearing, Jesus rises over others and his saints rise over the hordes of Devil. Saints are those, who try to love sinners braving the cross. Without love, one can’t bear the cross profitably and productively. Those who had destroyed true love in themselves and others by perversions and other means can’t bear the cross. Because then cross destroys their sin-weakened fragile internal bond making them powerless. They throw away cross as a curse. So it is natural that they will think the cross bearing Jesus is under eternal hell-punishment.

[dave3712]

The Jews and muslims are about to change their perspectives concerning the events of 32AD.

What is happening is that a presently small number of proselytizing Bible preachers are confronting the ancient Jewish response to Jesus which focuses on the Christian misinterpretations that state Jesus was not The Elijah.

The text of the gospels specifically state that John was not a prophet, never prophesied, was not the Elijah, and was not immortal enough to have returned after 800 years absence and then simply executed.

The ancient tradition which the Jews, themselves, have long held, insist that Elijah will berecognized by the mirales he performs.
When these Jews are confronted with the facts of the gospels, they can not deny the Christ was their beloved Elijah, returned as promised:

Both Elijah and Jesus raised the dead.

Both Elijah and Jesus were immortal.

Both Elijah and Jesus disappeared from the foot of a mountain.

Both Elijah and Jesus ascended into Heaven before witnesses.

Both Elijah and Jesus troubled Israel.

Both Elijah and Jesus were hunted down by the Jewish authorities.

Both Elijah and Jesus hid in a cave/tomb.

Both Elijah and Jesus pondered in the wilderness 40 days.

Both Elijah and Jesus walked on the water.

Both wrote letters to people on Earth after they had ascended.

Both appointed a successor, Elisha by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ.

Both were hunted by the Jewish authorities.

Both gave a successor the power to raise the dead.

Both gave a successor a symbolic authority, the cloak to one, the keys to the other.

Both asked that this "cup" be taken from them.

Both had miraculous births

Both multiplied the meal for many people they feed in the crowd.

Both destroyed the pagan worshippers and priests, one Baal, the other, the Pantheon of Rome.

Both were promised faithfulness three times, Elisha in the former and Peter, in the latter.





This will shock Islam who does not admit to the resurrection and immortality of this son of God.






(Read 1Kings and compare)

[Dena]

Jews do not believe Jesus is in hell.

[chrysostom]

this is why the Church did not want you to read the bible
and
can you blame them?

maybe you do not know what you are doing

Jesus descended into a place where the souls of all those who lived and died before Christ rested and waited for the redeemer

I am sure you will have problems with other parts of the bible

[g_n_o_s_i_s]

Muslims don't believe Jesus is in hell.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

Jesus descended into a place where the souls of all those who lived and died before Christ rested and waited for the redeemer

Exactly! He preached to them that their sins had been paid for.

[dave3712]

So where was Elijah for the 800 years before he returned in 32AD?

And Elijah had never died, but he returned after having been gone for 800 years.
Isn't that the definition of immortality, i.e.; the very way we identify a God.

[egyptianmuslim]

Some Jews and extremists Muslims say that Jesus is already in hell, under eternal torment

You are liar or ignorant.

[Apple7]

Originally Posted by stephengoswami

There is much contradiction between religions about the nature of heaven, hell and salvation even among Christian sects. Some Jews and extremists Muslims say that Jesus is already in hell, under eternal torment, while their people will have eternal enjoyment in future heaven.

I wonder what ayat in the Koran would lead a person to take this view?

[stephengoswami]

Quran has no such verse as it respects Christ. But I have heard in my own ears from fanatic Muslims and Ahmedias. Perhaps fanatic Jews influenced them.

[stephengoswami]

Originally Posted by egyptianmuslim

You are liar or ignorant.

I have heard in my own ears from fanatic Muslims and Ahmedias. Anyway Christ was called a liar too by jews and was crucified for it

[Apple7]

Originally Posted by stephengoswami

Quran has no such verse as it respects Christ. But I have heard in my own ears from fanatic Muslims and Ahmedias. Perhaps fanatic Jews influenced them.

I have not come across any Koranic ayat that would lend credence to the extremists view proclaimed in your OP, either.

The Koran, which is an early Christian work, actually portrays Jesus as God, Savior, Judge of mankind, etc., etc., etc., same as its source, the Holy Bible.

Still, I have to wonder where the idea has its genesis.

[Dena]

Originally Posted by stephengoswami

I have heard in my own ears from fanatic Muslims and Ahmedias. Anyway Christ was called a liar too by jews and was crucified for it

Jews were not allowed to crucify anyone by Jewish Law. Period. So no, the Jews did not have Jesus crucified.

[Apple7]

Originally Posted by Dena

Jews were not allowed to crucify anyone by Jewish Law. Period. So no, the Jews did not have Jesus crucified.

Actually, the NT gives full credit to the Jews for the murder of Jesus Christ.

[chair]

Originally Posted by stephengoswami

Quran has no such verse as it respects Christ. But I have heard in my own ears from fanatic Muslims and Ahmedias. Perhaps fanatic Jews influenced them.

So the statement about "fanatic Jews" is pure speculation. Nice.