[YahuShuan]

[quote=Ben Masada;3083639]

Originally Posted by YahuShuan

And for you, I have a much more pleasant message: If you decide to be part of God's Covenant made with His People Israel, you will acquire for yourself a name better than that of sons and daughters. That's in Isaiah 56:1-8.

And with regards to Luke 13:34,35, that's a reference to the Government, especially of that of Ahab who, with his wife Jezabel, killed many of the prophets of the Lord. It has nothing to do with the People of Israel. The People cannot be condemned for the crimes of the kings, especially when they have pagan wives as Jezabel was one.
Ben

That's one level of interpretation Ben, and I see it as your opinion. (but true) You know, you seem not to even attempt to understand the various levels of interpretation that you are supposed to, only utilizing one level to see all things with. That bereaves you of understanding what it is you think you see. And that is due to your own personal prejudice towards those who in your eyes are not Jews. Judging anothers servant me sees. Yet what I write to you can not be denied, nor will not be. Keep watch. I give it to you with hope for you, but love for Yah first, and then love for you. I don't know if you can even understand that but, no matter right now anyway. I'm not here defending me.

I think I will let Paul show you why I think you see, but do not understand, I took it to heart and it brought change, and oh yes, this is for YOU TOO. I can tell because how it says YOU KNEW...

Rom 1:16-32 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Messiah, for it is the power of Elohim for deliverance to everyone who believes, to the Yehuḏite first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of Elohim is revealed from belief to belief, as it has been written, “But the righteous shall live by belief.” For the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all wickedness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known of Elohim is manifest among them, for Elohim has manifested it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible qualities have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, both His everlasting power and Mightiness, for them to be without excuse, because, although they knew Elohim, they did not esteem Him as Elohim, nor gave thanks, but became vain in their reasonings, and their undiscerning heart was darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and changed the esteem of the incorruptible Elohim into the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds and of four-footed beasts and of reptiles. Therefore Elohim gave them up to uncleanness in the lust of their hearts, to disrespect their bodies among themselves, who changed the truth of Elohim into the falsehood, and worshipped and served what was created rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amĕn. Because of this Elohim gave them over to degrading passions. For even their women exchanged natural relations for what is against nature, and likewise, the men also, having left natural relations with woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing indecency, and receiving back the reward which was due for their straying. And even as they did not think it worth- while to possess the knowledge of Elohim, Elohim gave them over to a worthless mind, to do what is improper, having been filled with all unrighteousness, whoring, wickedness, greed, evil; filled with envy, murder, fighting, deceit, evil habits; whisperers, slanderers, haters of Elohim, insolent, proud, boasters, devisers of evils, disobedient to parents, without discernment, covenant breakers, unloving, unforgiving, ruthless; who, though they know the righteousness of Elohim, that those who practise such deserve death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practise them.

I can take it to heart and see the errors of my ways past so I can crucify the "old man" and become one anew. You need to do so also Ben. I will enter into Covenant with Yahuweh as soon as He offers it, WHEN I KNOW FOR SURE WHAT HIS CONDITIONS ARE.

Or did you forget that no one can do that without knowing the conditions and the Covenant being offerred Directly, or through a Prophet. THE ULTIMATE PROPHET IS MESSIAH YAHU'SHUA OF NATZARETH. "HIM YOU WILL LISTEN TO!"

And you will Ben, you will. I have hope that knows no bounds. And as for me, Oh Yes, I would gladly enter into Covenant with Yah, and it is HE who will empower me to keep it too, for one day I will "be changed in the twinkling of an eye!" Yahu'Shua mediates the "Renewed Covenant", in that, it is HE who is writing His Torah upon our hearts, and turning the Children back to the Fathers, and the Fathers to the Children. You are not the initiator of any Covenant because you sir, have no authority. How dare you try to demand agreement from me. Bad do.

Heb 8: Now the summary of what we are saying is: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Greatness in the heavens, and who serves in the set-apart place and of the true Tent, which יהוה set up, and not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and slaughters. So it was also necessary for this One to have somewhat to offer. For if indeed He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the Torah, who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly, as Mosheh was warned when he was about to make the Tent. For He said, “See that you make all according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.” But now He has obtained a more excellent service, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was constituted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. For finding fault with them, He says, “See, the days are coming,” says יהוה, “when I shall conclude with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah a renewed covenant, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Mitsrayim, because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them,” says יהוה. “Because this is the covenant that I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws in their mind, and I shall write them on their hearts, and I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people. And they shall by no means teach each one his neighbour, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ because they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. Because I shall forgive their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall no longer remember.” By saying, ‘renewed,’ He has made the first old. Now what becomes old and growing aged is near disappearing.

BECAUSE IT IS WRITTEN ON OUR HEARTS! You can't see it no more! He who has ears will hear, He didn't say he who has eyes will see, but you all out there had best open them. But it is the ear that gives the balance to man. See...more than one level.

Now go read Romans chapter 2. (the right way)
And Ben, don't tell me how Jewish you are when you have not accepted THE High Priest.
We are getting Torah written on us by THE HIGH PRIEST, do you not know our prayer? "Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven"? This prayer is being answered by the writings on our heart. But you deny the High Priest, so you are not getting it. (yet)

And if the Christians claim Yeshua as Messiah, then they "must walk, even as He walked", and He walked the Torah. Or as He said, "they do lie". Get grafted into the Tree Ben, because YOU AIN'T (yet), and neither are a LOT of them out there that claim to be. They lack "understanding".

[YahuShuan]

[quote=Ben Masada;3074521]

Originally Posted by YahuShuan

And as we can see, you are yourself digging a position to stand against the Scriptures, as you convey an opposite message to the one which is written. Israel, the Jewish People, was assigned as light unto the nations and not darkness. (Isa. 42:6) As for "trying to shine," we don't even have to. Just for being in there, it is by means of us that the Lord shows His glory in the sight of the nations. Read Ezekiel 20:41.
Ben

Take this to heart... Proving Yahu'Shua is the Messiah from the Old Testament.

It is YOU who stand against The Scriptures Ben.

[dave3712]

Originally Posted by Ben Masada

Paul, the Cuckoo Bird

Have you ever heard about the cuckoo bird? It is a gray European bird that, instinctively, lays its eggs in other bird's nests, as if it is unable to build a nest of its own from scratch. Its fledglings are usually more developed and strong enough to push out of the nest any possible domestic competitor for the food the adopted parents would bring home.

The cuckoo bird constitutes a perfect simile to the kind of man Paul was as a missionizer. Paul was never able to raise a church from scratch out of the Gentile population. His mission, since its very first station in Damascus and until its last in Rome, was to invade the Jewish synagogues and overturn them into Christian churches. (Acts 9:30) In Rome, since he could not freely walk around, he would invite the Jewish leaders to visit him in his house arresting condition to listen
to his gospel. (Acts 28:16,17)

The first nest Paul invaded and succeeded was in Antioch. After a whole year that he had laid his eggs, the disciples of the Jews started being called Christians. (Acts 11:26) The synagogue had been overturned into a Christian church. From then on, the chain was unbreakable. He went to the synagogues of Corinth. (Acts 18:1,4) From there, he proceeded throughout the country of Galatian and Phrygian. (Acts 18:23)

It happened that, to Galatia, a delegation from Judea had been sent to try to salvage the Galatian synagogue, and Paul became extremely upset to see that indeed many of the members were returning to the "other gospel," as he would, pejoratively, refer to the gospel of the Apostles. In his rage he would exclaim that any other gospel different from his, even if an angel had brought it down from Heaven, he would curse it or the preachers of such a gospel. (Gal. 1:6-9)

One day, as if he seemed to have had enough of the Jewish hostile reaction to his work in the Jewish synagogues, he declared in haste that, finnaly, he was turning to the Gentiles. (Acts 13:46) He was then in a Jewish synagogue of Antioch. (Acts 13:14) As he left the place he went to the Jewish synagogue of Iconium. (Acts 14:1) As any one can see, the Cuckoo bird could not change its nature. And Paul never changed even until death in Rome, where he tried to lay his eggs in the minds of the Roman Jews, although bound in chains. (Acts 28:16,17) The Cuckoo Paul could change his feathers and be whatever he fanced to be according to any circumstance, but he could never change the collors of his feathers.

Ben

This is interesting especially in the light that Paul was so effective among the Jews that to this day, he is their main target and he is the one accused of having growing the concept of Judaism into the christianity it claims to be the real jewish way.

What intrigues me is that either it was known to the apostles and Paul that Jesus was The Elijah, returned as had been promised 800 years prior, or that they too had discovered the matter to be too hot to handle and avoided it completely.

But surely, Paul the jewish theological expert that he was would have known that ancient Jewish Tradition specifically stated that The Elijah upon his return would be identifable by the miracles and things he would do.

The Jewish Encyclopedia calls this tradition The Tradition of the Seven Miracles of Elijah.

But the gospels seem intentionally to cloud this revelation so one must cut through much indirect evidence to find evidence for this Kabbalah:



The signs in 32AD pointed out that both Elijah and Christ performed essentially the same works. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, tradition has always told the Jews to look for the same kinds of miracles again, in order to identify The Elijah when he would re-appear in the future.

1) Both Elijah and Christ. raised the dead:
1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

2) Both Elijah, who never dies, and Christ were immortal
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal
John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

3) Both Elijah and Christ ascended into Heaven before witnesses:
2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it
Luke 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven

4) Both Elijah and Christ troubled Israel:
1 Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?
Matthew 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.

5) Both Elijah and Christ were threatened by the authorities with death

1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I even I only am left; and they seek my life, to take it away
John 11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death

6) Both Elijah and Christ were hunted by the Jewish authorities:
1 Kings 19:14 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away

John 7:25 Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

7) Both Elijah and Christ hid in a cave/tomb

1 Kings 19:9 And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

[dave3712]

Here is more evidence...


8) Both Elijah and Christ pondered in the wilderness 40 days and forty nights:

1 Kings 19:8 And he arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb the mount of God

Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

9) Both Elijah and Christ walked on across the water

2 Kings 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground

Matthew 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea

10) Both Elijah and Christ let a person follow them across the water:

2 Kings 2:14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over

Matthew 14:29 And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water to go to Jesus.

11) Both Elijah and Christ wrote only one thing, a letter, to people on Earth AFTER they had ascended:

2 Chronicles 21:12 And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the LORD God of David thy father, Because thou hast not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat thy father, nor in the ways of Asa king of Judah,

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

12) Both Elijah and Christ appointed a successor, Elisha, by Elijah, and Peter, by Christ:
2 Kings 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me

Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

13) Both Elijah and Christ gave a successor the power to raise the dead:

2 Kings 8:5 And it came to pass, as he was telling the king how he had restored a dead body to life, that, behold, the woman, whose son he had restored to life, cried to the king for her house and for her land. And Gehazi said, My lord, O king, this is the woman, and this is her son, whom Elisha restored to life

Acts 9:40 But Peter put them all forth, and kneeled down, and prayed; and turning him to the body said, Tabitha, arise. And she opened her eyes: and when she saw Peter, she sat up

14) Both Elijah and Christ. gave a successor the power to heal:

2 Kings 5:10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean

Acts 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk

[Ben Masada]

[quote=YahuShuan;3083873][quote=Ben Masada;3083639]

And that is due to your own personal prejudice towards those who in your eyes are not Jews.

Jews are those who speak and behave according to the Law and the Prophets. If they don't, it is because there is no truth in them. (Isa. 8:20) Can you pass that test? If you think you can, show me in the Tanach where it is written that Jesus was born of God with an earthly woman. That's rather against the Law and the Prophets.

Rom 1:16-32 For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Messiah, for it is the power of Elohim for deliverance to everyone who believes, to the Yehuḏite first and also to the Greek.

The good news of the Messiah is the good news conveyed by the People of Israel; aka, Judaism. Besides, according to whom Jesus was the Messiah? Take a look at 2 Tim. 2:8. Paul confessed to his disciple Timothy, that Jesus was the Messiah according to his - Paul's - gospel. Why should we adopt the gospel of a former Hellenistic Jew who failed the test of Isaiah 8:20?

I will enter into Covenant with Yahuweh as soon as He offers it, WHEN I KNOW FOR SURE WHAT HIS CONDITIONS ARE.

With us, it is quite different. We enter into a Covenant with Adonai no matter His conditions are. (Exo. 24:3)

THE ULTIMATE PROPHET IS MESSIAH YAHU'SHUA OF NATZARETH. "HIM YOU WILL LISTEN TO!"

According to who, you? The reference in Deuteronomy 18:18 is to Joshua, right there among the People. Those were Mose's instructions that the People should honor Joshua as they did Moses himself. Now, Christians claim that he was Jesus, and Muslims claim that he was Muhammad. What is this, double Replacement Theology?

Yahu'Shua mediates the "Renewed Covenant", in that, it is HE who is writing His Torah upon our hearts, and turning the Children back to the Fathers, and the Fathers to the Children. You are not the initiator of any Covenant because you sir, have no authority. How dare you try to demand agreement from me. Bad do.

Indeed, I am not the initiator of any covenant, but the New Covenant was established with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one People, according to Jer. 31:31 and Eze. 37:22. There is no mention of Gentiles, whose Noahide Covenant, had no need of renewal.

Heb 8: Now the summary of what we are saying is: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Greatness in the heavens, and who serves in the set-apart place and of the true Tent, which יהוה set up, and not man.

According to whom, you or Paul? There is nothing in the Scriptures about Jesus being the High Priest. Jesus has been dead for about 2000 years. (Eccl. 9:5,6)

But now He has obtained a more excellent service, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was constituted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.

As you can see, all according to Paul. Now, I hope, you understand what I mean by Replacement Theology. Elimination of the first covenant with the Jews and replacement with a better covenant, according to Hebrews 7:12,22. But what's the use? You have ears only for what your preconceived notions dictate.

For finding fault with them, He says, “See, the days are coming,” says יהוה, “when I shall conclude with the house of Yisra’ĕl and with the house of Yehuḏah a renewed covenant.

See again? With the House of Israel and the House of Judah as one People. To be under such a Covenant, one cannot pretend to be a Jew by another word. To the non-Jew, their covenant is the Nohide one.

Because this is the covenant that I shall make with the house of Yisra’ĕl after those days, says יהוה, giving My laws in their mind, and I shall write them on their hearts and I shall be their Elohim, and they shall be My people. And they shall by no means teach each one his neighbour, and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know יהוה,’ because they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.

That's what I mean by no longer need of prophets to teach us about God's Word. It is in our own minds and hearts. (Deut. 30:11-14)

And if the Christians claim Yeshua as Messiah, then they "must walk, even as He walked", and He walked the Torah. Or as He said, "they do lie". Get grafted into the Tree Ben, because YOU AIN'T (yet), and neither are a LOT of them out there that claim to be. They lack "understanding".

You have proved to me with this post of yours above, that you are indeed a good disciple of Paul, as you eloquently promote his policy of Replacement Theology. The climax of the arrogance is to urge with a Jew to graft himself to a Gentile tree, when it should be the other way around. Even Paul looses the game for you.

Ben

[Ben Masada]

[quote=YahuShuan;3085659]

Originally Posted by Ben Masada

Take this to heart... Proving Yahu'Shua is the Messiah from the Old Testament.

It is YOU who stand against The Scriptures Ben.

Prove it! I am all ears. If you succeed, I will surely change my mind.
Ben

[Ben Masada]

[quote=dave3712;3085692]

This is interesting especially in the light that Paul was so effective among the Jews that to this day, he is their main target and he is the one accused of having growing the concept of Judaism into the christianity it claims to be the real jewish way.

Paul did not preach Judaism but Hellenism. There is no such a thing in Judaism as the Greek myth of the demigod, which is the son of a god
with an earthly woman.

What intrigues me is that either it was known to the apostles and Paul that Jesus was The Elijah, returned as had been promised 800 years prior, or that they too had discovered the matter to be too hot to handle and avoided it completely.

See what I mean? Hellenistic teaching.

But surely, Paul the jewish theological expert that he was would have known that ancient Jewish Tradition specifically stated that The Elijah upon his return would be identifable by the miracles and things he would do.

And that's Christian Hellenism. At least, quote your assertion in the Tanach if you don't like short answers.

The Jewish Encyclopedia calls this tradition The Tradition of the Seven Miracles of Elijah.

Midrashim. You know, the same as parables.

But the gospels seem intentionally to cloud this revelation so one must cut through much indirect evidence to find evidence for this Kabbalah:

Mysticism. It can never be interpreted literally.

The signs in 32AD pointed out that both Elijah and Christ performed essentially the same works. According to the Encyclopedia Judaica, tradition has always told the Jews to look for the same kinds of miracles again, in order to identify The Elijah when he would re-appear in the future.

Balderdash!

1) Both Elijah and Christ. raised the dead: 1 Kings 17:22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

Chronicles of the Prophets. Embelishments to enhance honor to the great ones; kings or prophets.

John 12:1 Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead.

Parables. That's the same as the one about Lazarus and the richman
in Luke 16:19-31.

2) Both Elijah, who never dies, and Christ were immortal
2 Kings 2:1 And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal.

That's a Torah contradiction to Genesis 3:22 where it says that man cannot live forever. IOW, no attribute of eternal life to humans.

John 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

Luke says in Acts 1:3 that those apparitions of Jesus to his disciples were after his passion or sufferings. To show up alive after one's passion is no proof even that one died, let alone that he resurrected.

3) Both Elijah and Christ ascended into Heaven before witnesses:

Eyewitnesses, please. At least one. If you can show me one in the NT I'll quit being a Jew to be a Christian.

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Did he? Prove that to me and I'll become a Christian. According to Mat. 27:62, Jesus died on Friday, was laid to rest in the evening, and at the end of that Sabbath, the tomb was empty. How can I find three days and three nights here? (Mat. 28:1,6)

Ben

[Ben Masada]

Originally Posted by dave3712

Here is more evidence...

Both Elijah and Christ pondered in the wilderness 40 days and forty nights.

How was Jesus in the desert, fasting? The first three gospels say that Jesus went to the desert immediately as he went out of the Jordan River after baptism. Now, ask John. This one says that on the third day after his baptism he was in a wedding in Canah turning water into wine rather than stones into bread. (John 2:1)

Ben

[YahuShuan]

[quote=Ben Masada;3096467]

Originally Posted by YahuShuan

Prove it! I am all ears. If you succeed, I will surely change my mind.
Ben

I already have, stop lying, your only agenda is against truth. Nothing I can do. Prove to me that you're a real Jew. Prove to me that you are descended from Abraham! Show me your lineage. Do you see how stupidly futile you are. Take me back to Adam and show me your line! Yet, Yahu'Shua had you shown His line, and both sides of it.

And how come you folks don't brag how EliYahu IS A GENTILE? They very guy that Yah "translated" and is a MAJOR prophet to both you and I, IS A GENTILE. Being a "Tishbite" was not because of where he was from, but because of WHO he was from.

And Ruth? What about her you gentile hating man? Saved your butts though didn't she?

Seems you folks get so dirty with all your manmade traditions that even Yah has to go outside the camp and get someone who refuses to be lied to, no different from the christians are you. Both sets of folks seem to live on lies though. Lies, and twisting, adding to the Word and taking away from it, like democrats in the US, they say we just don't understand. But oh brother, do we ever. And each day that goes by, those who choose rightousness are those who hear and recieve the truth. Those who refuse righteousness, are those who do not understand. Not even what they see plainly.

Convincing you is not my job. Converting you would be an insult to you. I do neither, all I do is lay it out, but you can't even read. I can't help you, only Yah can...but YOU are NOT listening TO HIM.

[Ben Masada]

[quote=YahuShuan;3097541][quote=Ben Masada;3096467]

I already have, stop lying, your only agenda is against truth.

Stop fooling yourself. You haven't proved anything. You are just trying to flater yourself with empty words.

Nothing I can do. Prove to me that you're a real Jew. Prove to me that you are descended from Abraham! Show me your lineage. Do you see how stupidly futile you are. Take me back to Adam and show me your line! Yet, Yahu'Shua had you shown His line, and both sides of it.

See what I mean? Childish pranks. Since the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon, the Tribal system is over. We are all under the denomination of one only People, according to Ezekiel 37:22.

And how come you folks don't brag how EliYahu IS A GENTILE? They very guy that Yah "translated" and is a MAJOR prophet to both you and I, IS A GENTILE. Being a "Tishbite" was not because of where he was from, but because of WHO he was from.

It does not matter who Eliyahu was or where he came from. He was a Jew and that's all that matters.

And Ruth? What about her you gentile hating man? Saved your butts though didn't she?

The Jewish People is composed of the ancient Tribe of Judah, a few thousands from the other ancient Tribes of Israel who joined Judah in the South, plus the Gentiles who have converted to Judaism, according to Halachah or Jewish law. (Isa. 56:1-8)

Seems you folks get so dirty with all your manmade traditions that even Yah has to go outside the camp and get someone who refuses to be lied to, no different from the christians are you.

Are you of the literal interpretation club? I ask because you have demonstrated as much knowledge as the common theists who have an anthropomorphic idea of God.

Both sets of folks seem to live on lies though. Lies, and twisting, adding to the Word and taking away from it, like democrats in the US, they say we just don't understand.

Show me where I have added or taken away from it. With your ad hominems, you only succeed to show how racist you are.

But oh brother, do we ever. And each day that goes by, those who choose rightousness are those who hear and recieve the truth. Those who refuse righteousness, are those who do not understand. Not even what they see plainly.

The Psychology here is that those who live on lies, love to accuse others of being liars.

Convincing you is not my job. Converting you would be an insult to you. I do neither, all I do is lay it out, but you can't even read. I can't help you, only Yah can...but YOU are NOT listening TO HIM.

No, you are right. I cannot read ad hominems. Then, again, English is not even my second language but the third. I speak four. It means I am not the ignorant you paint me to be. Now, have a good day.

Ben

[YahuShuan]

[quote=Ben Masada;3106053][quote=YahuShuan;3097541]

Originally Posted by Ben Masada

Stop fooling yourself. You haven't proved anything. You are just trying to flater yourself with empty words.



See what I mean? Childish pranks. Since the return of the Jews from exile in Babylon, the Tribal system is over. We are all under the denomination of one only People, according to Ezekiel 37:22.



It does not matter who Eliyahu was or where he came from. He was a Jew and that's all that matters.



The Jewish People is composed of the ancient Tribe of Judah, a few thousands from the other ancient Tribes of Israel who joined Judah in the South, plus the Gentiles who have converted to Judaism, according to Halachah or Jewish law. (Isa. 56:1-8)



Are you of the literal interpretation club? I ask because you have demonstrated as much knowledge as the common theists who have an anthropomorphic idea of God.



Show me where I have added or taken away from it. With your ad hominems, you only succeed to show how racist you are.



The Psychology here is that those who live on lies, love to accuse others of being liars.



No, you are right. I cannot read ad hominems. Then, again, English is not even my second language but the third. I speak four. It means I am not the ignorant you paint me to be. Now, have a good day.

Ben

Eliyahu was not a Jew, he was a gentile. Sorry dude. You may speak four and yet not even understand one. You are painting yourself Ben, I keep trying to wipe you off. But hey, you take the rag, I'm tired. I wish for you love, and truth. Shalom.

[Ben Masada]

[quote=YahuShuan;3106938][quote=Ben Masada;3106053]

Originally Posted by YahuShuan

Eliyahu was not a Jew, he was a gentile. Sorry dude. You may speak four and yet not even understand one. You are painting yourself Ben, I keep trying to wipe you off. But hey, you take the rag, I'm tired. I wish for you love, and truth. Shalom.

Hey YahuShuan, just allow me one last word before you go. Take a look at I Kings 17:1. Eliyahu was originally from the city of Tishbe in Gilead, accross the Jordan River. He was either from the Tribe of the Reubenites, the Gadites or Manasseh, whom that part of Canaan was in the Transjordan was given to. Read Joshua 1:12 and Num. 32:25,26. The city of Tishbe was not a country in the territory of the Gentiles but of the Israelites.
Ben

[dave3712]

[quote=YahuShuan;3085659]

Originally Posted by Ben Masada

Take this to heart... Proving Yahu'Shua is the Messiah from the Old Testament.

It is YOU who stand against The Scriptures Ben.

I find that the issue is so politically charged that jewish people stand against their own Tradition, even.

The Jews had a 800 year tradition that told them to expect the return of Elijah had had never died, but disappear into heaven before a witness.

When he would return the understanding was he would be identifiable by the Seven Miracles of Elijah, and many more things he would do.

They Jews do not respond with an intellectual honesty in regard to this tradition, nor hte numerous duplications in the New Testament of what Elijah is reported to have performed in 1ki and 2kings.

[dave3712]

Originally Posted by Ben Masada

How was Jesus in the desert, fasting? The first three gospels say that Jesus went to the desert immediately as he went out of the Jordan River after baptism. Now, ask John. This one says that on the third day after his baptism he was in a wedding in Canah turning water into wine rather than stones into bread. (John 2:1)

Ben

Hmmm...

The interpretation of when Jesus went into the wilderness is open to more discussion since he was seen the day after too.




/////

32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.

34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;

36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

[dave3712]

[quote=Ben Masada;3109690][quote=YahuShuan;3106938]

Originally Posted by Ben Masada

Hey YahuShuan, just allow me one last word before you go. Take a look at I Kings 17:1. Eliyahu was originally from the city of Tishbe in Gilead, accross the Jordan River. He was either from the Tribe of the Reubenites, the Gadites or Manasseh, whom that part of Canaan was in the Transjordan was given to. Read Joshua 1:12 and Num. 32:25,26. The city of Tishbe was not a country in the territory of the Gentiles but of the Israelites.
Ben

All true.

However, there are those who have argued that Elijah had no father or mother, and hence experienced a divine birth.