Do you believe God has a hand in everything the state does?
I believe the state can make evil decisions but that God will punish them through some other arena, like he did with the kings of old. Unfortunatly the people suffer before the king does, but I believe God makes a way for thoes that count on him.
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May 26th, 2012, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Delmar
Not according to Arthur. He just blew off everything I said and will do more harm than good!
Actually I answered you point for point as to why people should be given financial aid when out of work. You're the one who's blowing off everything I said. If I realized this was the extent you were going to 'debate' on the topic I wouldn't have bothered addressing you as much as I did....
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May 26th, 2012, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sky.
How are people "forced" out of a job?
Seriously? When they're made redundant due to recession, businesses going under, cutbacks etc etc. Out of a 1500 strong workforce we were informed that 750 people were going to be laid off within the following few months because the recession was taking too much of a toll on business to keep the staff size as it was. Many businesses suffered in the same way which meant many people losing their jobs. There's no 'right of appeal' in these cases. It's not like losing a job through misconduct or some such.
Even with the welfare/benefits system in place there are those who 'fall through the net' and end up on the streets, so how on earth could a donation based system be anything other than a disaster?
Can someone please provide a clear argument as to how such could realistically take care of those in society who need it the most?
The gov needs to pay people who get married, have a father and mother in the house, are employed, and the check goes to the man of the house in a fixed amount regardless of the number of children.
This would all be based upon the income in the household.
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May 26th, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dave3712
The gov needs to pay people who get married, have a father and mother in the house, are employed, and the check goes to the man of the house in a fixed amount regardless of the number of children.
Eh? What are you saying exactly as this is pretty garbled. Are you saying that the gov needs to pay married couples who have their parents living with them? Else, it seems pretty obvious that both spouses would be sharing the same house.
If they're employed then welfare for unemployment is kinda negated also (which was kinda the point of this thread)
What 'check' and what is it for exactly and how much?
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This would all be based upon the income in the household.
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May 26th, 2012, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Arthur Brain
How would it work?
How could it be tenable?
Even with the welfare/benefits system in place there are those who 'fall through the net' and end up on the streets, so how on earth could a donation based system be anything other than a disaster?
Can someone please provide a clear argument as to how such could realistically take care of those in society who need it the most?
I don't think it is tenable. I agree with WandererInFog that for it to be feasible it would require a change in society.
If all government safety nets were taken away in today's society, I think people would band together and increase personal charity to fill in some gaps but I tend to think that more people would go needy than do now. It's a tough hypothetical though.
Also if they got rid of welfare I bet I would not see much of a change in my tax rate so therefore the needy would take a brutal beating, because I cant afford to be very charitable with the amount the govt takes. When was the last time you hear of tax rates being lowered a meaningful amount like say 35% to 15% once they are raised they will NEVER go back down.
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May 26th, 2012, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by kmoney
I don't think it is tenable. I agree with WandererInFog that for it to be feasible it would require a change in society.
If all government safety nets were taken away in today's society, I think people would band together and increase personal charity to fill in some gaps but I tend to think that more people would go needy than do now. It's a tough hypothetical though.
I think it would be inevitable that many more people would go without if a welfare net were taken away. Relying on personal charity just couldn't possibly cover it in any realistic sense.
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"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
Actually I answered you point for point as to why people should be given financial aid when out of work. You're the one who's blowing off everything I said. If I realized this was the extent you were going to 'debate' on the topic I wouldn't have bothered addressing you as much as I did....
Yes, yes, you blew me off point by point, I'll give you that.
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May 26th, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Delmar
Yes, yes, you blew me off point by point, I'll give you that.
Er, no. Rather I answered and explained to you that several who benefit from the welfare system have actually paid into it themselves, that living on benefits is hardly an enviable standard of living, that folk laid off work through no fault of their own don't tend to think they're on a "paid holiday" for months on end but devastated due to employment being terminated, that jobs don't grow on trees and competition is abundant due to the lack of myriad employment prospects, especially in the period of financial recession.
Your response? Nothing other than a couple of soundbites which addressed absolutely zero.
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May 26th, 2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Arthur Brain
I think it would be inevitable that many more people would go without if a welfare net were taken away. Relying on personal charity just couldn't possibly cover it in any realistic sense.
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"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
Er, no. Rather I answered and explained to you that several who benefit from the welfare system have actually paid into it themselves,
I do admit that some people who receive "unemployment compensation" are not ruined by it.
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that living on benefits is hardly an enviable standard of living, that folk laid off work through no fault of their own don't tend to think they're on a "paid holiday" for months on end but devastated due to employment being terminated, that jobs don't grow on trees and competition is abundant due to the lack of myriad employment prospects, especially in the period of financial recession.
Your response? Nothing other than a couple of soundbites which addressed absolutely zero.
When did I imply that jobs do or should grow on trees?
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May 26th, 2012, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Delmar
I do admit that some people who receive "unemployment compensation" are not ruined by it.
Do you consider most are? If so why? Have you ever lived on benefits as a matter of interest? By the by I'm not denying that some people do abuse the system but that's unavoidable.
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When did I imply that jobs do or should grow on trees?
Well your general tone implies that all able people should work, except there's no such thing as full employment, so what then?
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