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Slogan/motto:
Hope sees the invisible, achieves the impossible.
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May 26th, 2012, 02:51 AM
我也说官话汉语
但不太好
The answer to your first question is................ many. But take heart, you are probably far better with Latin than I am. I can read Latin but I don't speak it at all. English is the only foreign language that I can have a conversation in without having to look at a dictionary at least once every sentence. Or I could in Spanish or French if the people talking to me didn't mind lots of noun gender errors and totally wrong words for things.
Everyone else: Spitfire? WHO IS THAT? This does not seem to be a popular discussion topic.
"So as not to exchange one evil for another, this poor land must be saved from the scourge of friend and foe alike." - Friedrich Schiller
Posting ability officially rated "pretty good" by Delmar.
The answer to your first question is................ many. But take heart, you are probably far better with Latin than I am. I can read Latin but I don't speak it at all. English is the only foreign language that I can have a conversation in without having to look at a dictionary at least once every sentence. Or I could in Spanish or French if the people talking to me didn't mind lots of noun gender errors and totally wrong words for things.
Everyone else: Spitfire? WHO IS THAT? This does not seem to be a popular discussion topic.
It's because Traditio started a thread about you. We didn't want to dignify it.
If anyone else had started the thread there would have been interest.
I just put it through google translate. That was Mandarin. Not only was that Mandarin, but in Mandarin, you were saying that you have a sub-par grasp of Mandarin.
*Fun fact. There's no such [uniform] language as "Chinese," even though there is a "Chinese" option on google translate. There are only lots of local dialects. The "Chinese" which is spoken in Hong Kong is not the same "Chinese" which is spoken in Beijing. The most popular dialect, I believe, is Mandarin, which is spoken (again, I believe this to be the case, but I'm not entirely sure) in the capital.
I took a semester of Mandarin chinese in my senior year as an undergraduate. Not because I cared about Chinese. I think it's, at least for the vast majority of my intents and purposes, a completely useless language. I took the class because it gave me just the number of hours that I needed that semester and it was at a convenient time slot. I've forgotten the vast majority of the Mandarin that I've learned as an undergrad.
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The answer to your first question is................ many. But take heart, you are probably far better with Latin than I am. I can read Latin but I don't speak it at all.
I want a list.
Seriously, though, if you don't mind either writing it down here or sending me a PM, I'd like a complete list of the languages that you know, plus an indication of how good you are in each/how long you've spent studying them.
At some point in the next few years, I have reasonable expectations for my language proficiency count to rise at least to 5. I already know English and Latin (I don't speak Latin; pretty much nobody speaks Latin; I minored in Latin as an undergrad, though, and I've been working on Latin in grad school; I apparently have good enough Latin to pass a language test at the MA level for my department). I'm working on Attic Greek (so that I can read the Platonists) and French (so that I can read academic literature). And at some point, I'm intending to learn German (so that I can read more academic literature...and Kant, if I so choose).
I'm wanting to know how many languages I need to beat you.*
*(You didn't know it's a competition? Oh, it's a competition, Spitfire, and not only that, but it's on!)
Slogan/motto:
Hope sees the invisible, achieves the impossible.
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May 27th, 2012, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
I want a list.
Seriously, though, if you don't mind either writing it down here or sending me a PM, I'd like a complete list of the languages that you know, plus an indication of how good you are in each/how long you've spent studying them.
The would be a huge amount of work...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
I'm wanting to know how many languages I need to beat you.*
*(You didn't know it's a competition? Oh, it's a competition, Spitfire, and not only that, but it's on!)
Wait a minute... first you take language classes because you have to, just because they count for hours of class time, but now you've decided you want to know more languages than anyone else you know? What prompted this change of heart? Too little too late, I'm afraid.
Nevertheless, I'll make it easy for you. I concede defeat! You win. Now, go revel in your victory.
"So as not to exchange one evil for another, this poor land must be saved from the scourge of friend and foe alike." - Friedrich Schiller
Posting ability officially rated "pretty good" by Delmar.
Wait a minute... first you take language classes because you have to, just because they count for hours of class time,
Well, it's complicated. I took 2 semesters of Spanish in high school because I figured that it would be easier than French, and it was required. I learned Latin, though, because I genuinely wanted to learn the language. It is, after all, the language of the Church.
I took a semester of Greek in college as an undergrad because I was considering a double major in Latin and philosophy, and a semester of Greek was required for the Latin major (I decided only to minor in Latin). Also, I figured that Greek was the language of the New Testament. I decided not to pursue it further then because...Greek is really freakin' hard.
I've decided to take up Greek again because I am a Platonist. If you are a Platonist and you don't know Greek, you deserve to be laughed at and mocked by your colleagues. And there's always a chance that I'll write a dissertation that has something to do with the ancient Greek philosophers. When you write a dissertation, it's pretty much required that you read the source material in the original language.
It was really only the semester of Mandarin that I took that was because I just wanted the credit hours (and the Spanish in high school, I suppose).
I have a dual reason for taking up French (I've recently unofficially audited two semesters of french in grad school, and I've been working on it this summer). 1. It's part of my heritage. 2. It's an important language for philosophy, and it was listed as a modern language that I have to know for if/when I go for the Ph.D. It was either that or German.
Likewise, German is one of those languages that you pretty much have to know when it comes to academic philosophy.
There's a chance that I may eventually learn Arabic. It's the language of Avicenna, Averroes, etc. One of my colleagues bugged me last semester about learning it, and if he's still around next semester and he and the relevent prof. follow through on their plans, I may take a shot at learning it.
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but now you've decided you want to know more languages than anyone else you know? What prompted this change of heart? Too little too late, I'm afraid.
Au contraire! Not anyone else. Just you. I'm eventually going to be an academic scholar. I'll not be outdone by an Austrian soldier.
Quote:
Nevertheless, I'll make it easy for you. I concede defeat! You win. Now, go revel in your victory.
Slogan/motto:
Hope sees the invisible, achieves the impossible.
Reputation:
May 27th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
Likewise, German is one of those languages that you pretty much have to know when it comes to academic philosophy.
I think you will discover that the works of Kant, like those of Nietzsche and Hitler, make even less sense in German than when translated into English, because the translator will try to render it into something that seems sensible in his/her own language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
Au contraire! Not anyone else. Just you. I'm eventually going to be an academic scholar. I'll not be outdone by an Austrian soldier.
If it helps, my education has kept me from becoming much of a soldier. I'm so busy with language-related work all the time that I don't think I'll ever be on the front lines fighting terrorists. Meanwhile, I can assure you that most Austrian soldiers can't even speak German correctly and are still far less able to produce a grammatically correct statement in English (unless maybe if it's the lyrics of a song they've memorized.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
Nooooo! I'll win fair and square.
Here's what I would do if I were you: just learn as many as you can. And know that every time you develop some proficiency in a new language that the probability that you have "beaten" me increases slightly.
"So as not to exchange one evil for another, this poor land must be saved from the scourge of friend and foe alike." - Friedrich Schiller
Posting ability officially rated "pretty good" by Delmar.
I think you will discover that the works of Kant, like those of Nietzsche and Hitler, make even less sense in German than when translated into English, because the translator will try to render it into something that seems sensible in his/her own language.
I've heard at least one of my professors tell a story about how German professors of philosophy get so angry when they see their students reading Kant...in English translation.
I heard another story that once, someone read the Critique of Pure Reason and didn't know what a line meant. So, he went to Kant, showed him the line in question, and asked him what it meant. After reading, Kant said that he didn't know.
I'm surprised that you bring up Hitler. I was under the impression that the works of Hitler are illegal in Austria and Germany?
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If it helps, my education has kept me from becoming much of a soldier. I'm so busy with language-related work all the time that I don't think I'll ever be on the front lines fighting terrorists. Meanwhile, I can assure you that most Austrian soldiers can't even speak German correctly and are still far less able to produce a grammatically correct statement in English (unless maybe if it's the lyrics of a song they've memorized.)
I had an English professor once who made the joke that the Germans lost World War II because they were too busy telling time. Apparently, telling someone the time is a very involved process in German. What made it funnier is the fact that the English professor was (at least ethnically) Jewish!
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Here's what I would do if I were you: just learn as many as you can. And know that every time you develop some proficiency in a new language that the probability that you have "beaten" me increases slightly.
Slogan/motto:
Hope sees the invisible, achieves the impossible.
Reputation:
May 28th, 2012, 09:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
I'm surprised that you bring up Hitler. I was under the impression that the works of Hitler are illegal in Austria and Germany?
A lot of people are under that impression. It's not true. But, if you buy it, it's not just Mein Kampf, it also has lots of editorial commentary (basically pointing out to readers that, in case they hadn't noticed, the man who wrote this book was completely insane.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
I had an English professor once who made the joke that the Germans lost World War II because they were too busy telling time. Apparently, telling someone the time is a very involved process in German.
I actually can't think of anything he might mean by that. Sometimes there might be a few more syllables than in English, but not necessarily. For example, if it's 11:35, you would say "elf Uhr fünf-und-dreissig" (six syllables) while in English it would be "eleven thirty-five" (also six syllables.) If you use something idiomatic, German is sometimes shorter. Instead of "half past eleven" (five syllables) you would say "halb zwölf" (two syllables.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traditio
That's so incredibly vague.
You're welcome.
"So as not to exchange one evil for another, this poor land must be saved from the scourge of friend and foe alike." - Friedrich Schiller
Posting ability officially rated "pretty good" by Delmar.
Spitfire: Trad's question is specifically regarding the language of love.
Discussion of any other language, while it may be interesting, is a diversion.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Slogan/motto:
Don't look back; something may be gaining on you.
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May 29th, 2012, 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoo22
Spitfire: Trad's question is specifically regarding the language of love.
Discussion of any other language, while it may be interesting, is a diversion.
Unless it's common sense....if you can teach him to understand (if not speak) that; it would be a service to humanity.
Destroy another fetus now, we don't like children anyhow, I've seen the future baby......... It is Murder.
~Leonard Cohen
To my mind it is wholly irresponsible to go into the world incapable of preventing violence, injury, crime, and death. How feeble is the mindset to accept defenselessness. How unnatural. How cheap. How cowardly. How pathetic.
~Ted Nugent
But take heart, you are probably far better with Latin than I am. I can read Latin but I don't speak it at all. English is the only foreign language that I can have a conversation in without having to look at a dictionary at least once every sentence. Or I could in Spanish or French if the people talking to me didn't mind lots of noun gender errors and totally wrong words for things.
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