The Difference Between Catholic Justification and Christian Justification
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The Difference Between Catholic Justification and Christian Justification -
May 26th, 2012, 12:10 PM
Catholic justification is something that happens in the Catholic. It is subjective.
Christian justification is something that God has done in Jesus Christ on behalf of the Christian, It is objective.
CATHOLIC JUSTIFICATION
"If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification, and that it is not in anyway necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema." (Council of Trent, Canon #9.)
"Roman Catholicism teaches that Christ's merit initiates our salvation, but it views "Infused grace" as merit that God puts within a man. In this way Christ's merit becomes human merit.
Catholics theologians clearly affirm that there is no merit in "good works" done by the sinner. But when "good works" are done by sanctifying grace in the man, they regard such works as meritorious.
In short, Catholicism affirms the saving merit of infused righteousness (the work of the Holy Spirit in man.") (Robert Brinsmead, "Understanding Catholic Justification.")
"If anyone says that a man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or through the teaching of the law, WITHOUT DIVINE GRACE through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema." (Council of Trent, Canon #1.)
Catholicism plainly teaches that salvation is all about what is going on in the Catholic. They say that it is not by works but by divine grace. How do you obtain this "Divine Grace"? Divine Grace is something that is already in us. It is this "divine grace" that makes us friends with God.
CHRISTIAN JUSTIFICATION
Christian justification is based upon the teachings of the apostle Paul and the Bible.
Christian justification is NOT something that takes place in the believer. The Bible makes it clear that man is a hopeless sinner that is void of any righteousness that God will accept, Romans 3:11.
Paul wrote, "Therefore, by the deeds of the law there shall be no flesh justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," Romans 3:20.
"Deeds of the Law" is what we do. When we are doing Christian works it is done by the law. Anything in the Bible that tells us to do or not to do something is law, What Paul is saying is that nothing that we do will justify us.
How then are we justified? We are justified by the righteousness of Christ, but not by an infused righteousness. We are justified by an imputed righteousness, Romans 4:6. Imputed means that righteousness is to our account, we don't have it yet. It is like someone places money in your bank account for future withdrawl. The righteousness of Christ will become ours when Christ appears at the resurrection, 1 Corinthians 15:52.
The Christian is justified by faith, Romans 4:5. Faith in what? Faith in the work and the person of Jesus Christ, The Gospel. The Christian does not have faith in anything that is happening in his life. His faith is objective, his faith goes outside of himself to Christ. Christianity is not a subjective religion. It is the only religion where the believers salvation is not based upon his performance but is based on an outside of him past historical event.
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May 26th, 2012, 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Catholic justification is something that happens in the Catholic. It is subjective.
Christian justification is something that God has done in Jesus Christ on behalf of the Christian, It is objective.
Pate already has it wrong. The fact is that Catholicism teaches that justification is both objective and subjective. See here.
(Once again, Pate merely reveals his vast ignorance of actual Catholic doctrine. End of thread... )
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Last edited by Cruciform; May 26th, 2012 at 01:06 PM.
I don't think it makes any sense to place limits on how God can reach people. If most churches are to be believed everyone but their members are heading to hell.
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love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
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May 26th, 2012, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Eeset
I don't think it makes any sense to place limits on how God can reach people. If most churches are to be believed everyone but their members are heading to hell.
some churches seem to be teaching that
but Jesus did say that FEW find the narrow way that leads to eternal life
the CatholicChurch teaches that nonCatholics can get to Heaven but it is not easy... Having said that, it is not easy for Catholics to get to Heaven either.. and many dont make it.
the devil is more powerful than we are... Still, the reason ppl go to Hell is because they do not want to do hard things that God requires of them... it is NOT because of God
when humans lost grace (A and Eve), it was a huge loss, which required something like Jesus' Cross to change things... But the problem is that most people, even those claiming 2b Christian... well... aren't, to be blunt..
Jesus said that if we love Him we will keep his commandments... yet many so called bleivers act like ... OSAS
like "i can do whatever i want, saved regardless"
then they have the gall to get upset w/ Catholics who supposedly invent stuff that can't be verified by the Bible...
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
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May 26th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
Pate already has it wrong. The fact is that Catholicism teaches that justification is both objective and subjective. See here.
(Once again, Pate merely reveals his vast ignorance of actual Catholic doctrine. End of thread... )
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
The Bible does not teach an infused righteousness. No where in the Bible does it even suggest that one can be saved by an infused righteousness.
What the Bible does teach is that man is a sinner and that salvation must come to him solely and completely outside of him. Life and history teach that man is a sinner. Look at your own church it is full of perverted priest.
If infused righteousness was true or if it worked, which it doesn't, Catholics would be more righteous than any one. There not.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
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May 26th, 2012, 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeset
I don't think it makes any sense to place limits on how God can reach people. If most churches are to be believed everyone but their members are heading to hell.
If one does not come to God by the shed blood of Jesus Christ they are eternally lost. God reachs people only through Jesus Christ, there is no other way. Jesus said, "I am the way" John 14:6.
Salvation is by faith alone because it is by Christ alone.
Jesus Christ is the only one that God has accepted into heaven. If we are to be saved we will have to be saved on his merit and not our own.
Religion is basically man's presentation of himself to God for acceptance. His works, his righteousness. God only accepts Jesus Christ, we are accepted only in him.
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
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May 26th, 2012, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
some churches seem to be teaching that
but Jesus did say that FEW find the narrow way that leads to eternal life
the CatholicChurch teaches that nonCatholics can get to Heaven but it is not easy... Having said that, it is not easy for Catholics to get to Heaven either.. and many dont make it.
the devil is more powerful than we are... Still, the reason ppl go to Hell is because they do not want to do hard things that God requires of them... it is NOT because of God
when humans lost grace (A and Eve), it was a huge loss, which required something like Jesus' Cross to change things... But the problem is that most people, even those claiming 2b Christian... well... aren't, to be blunt..
Jesus said that if we love Him we will keep his commandments... yet many so called bleivers act like ... OSAS
like "i can do whatever i want, saved regardless"
then they have the gall to get upset w/ Catholics who supposedly invent stuff that can't be verified by the Bible...
where in the Bible does it say
Sin all you want, you cannot lose your salvation?
on the contrary
St Mt 18:23
Like most Catholics you think that salvation is all about you and your performance.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Salvation is not about your performance, salvation is about Christ's performance.
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
Whether you want to hear it or not, Paul says that you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.
If I were you, I would try to find another way to be saved that does not depend upon your performance.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
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May 26th, 2012, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
The Bible does not teach an infused righteousness. No where in the Bible does it even suggest that one can be saved by an infused righteousness.
Already answered (Post #2). Moving on...
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
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May 27th, 2012, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
Catholic justification: An infused righteousness that the Bible knows nothing about.
Christian justification: An imputed righteousness, Romans 4:11, Romans 4:22, 23, 24. Romans 5:13. James 2:23. Romans 4:6. Psalm 32:2. 2 Corinthians 5:19. Romans 4:8.
Impute means to place in ones account. They don't have it yet, it is to their account.
Already answered (Post #2). Moving on...
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
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May 28th, 2012, 12:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
You are moving on all right. Further and further from the truth.
"the truth" = "Pate's preferences and opinions"
Quote:
I listed all of that scripture and you just ignored it all.
You listed scriptures which indicate that righteousness is imputed, and no Catholic here would dispute that fact. However, none of those texts says that righteousness is ONLY imputed, or that it is not ALSOimparted (infused). Catholics believe it is BOTH, just as the scriptures in their entirety---and not carefully selected by you---plainly teach. See here.
Quote:
There is nothing, absolutly nothing, in the Bible about an infused righteousness.
Already refuted just above, as well as in Post #2. Moving on...
Gaudium de verutate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Sinners cannot save sinners, nor can sinners save themselves.
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May 29th, 2012, 06:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
"the truth" = "Pate's preferences and opinions"
You listed scriptures which indicate that righteousness is imputed, and no Catholic here would dispute that fact. However, none of those texts says that righteousness is ONLY imputed, or that it is not ALSOimparted (infused). Catholics believe it is BOTH, just as the scriptures in their entirety---and not carefully selected by you---plainly teach. See here.
Already refuted just above, as well as in Post #2. Moving on...
Gaudium de verutate,
Cruciform
+T+
The word "impart" or "imparted" is only used 4 times in the Bible.
The word is NOT used as "imparted" righteousness. There is NOTHING, absolutly NOTHING in the Bible that teaches righteousness can be infused, poured or imparted to a person.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
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May 29th, 2012, 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
The word "impart" or "imparted" is only used 4 times in the Bible.The word is NOT used as "imparted" righteousness. There is NOTHING, absolutly NOTHING in the Bible that teaches righteousness can be infused, poured or imparted to a person.
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
May 26th, 2012, 12:18 PM
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