ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
The "Word of God" is a living word, not the dead words that have been the channel of "The Word." The books that comprise the bible do not claim to be "The Word". The Bible says that "The Word" is spoken any time truth is spoken across all time. The Bible says that "The Son" is "The Word." Bible idolatry has lead to confusion and stunted growth. The Jews still live in the idolatry of their own man made scriptures.
Caino
At last we have common ground. The Word is Spirit and has always been. Yeshua was this Word MADE flesh.
However, your disdain for the scriptures is a hindrance to you. Part of the revelation of the Word is also the TORAH which has not been corrupted, as it has been validated by the perfection found in the letter placement discovered by the bible codes, for those that can't receive the witness of the Spirit.
At last we have common ground. The Word is Spirit and has always been. Yeshua was this Word MADE flesh.
However, your disdain for the scriptures is a hindrance to you. Part of the revelation of the Word is also the TORAH which has not been corrupted, as it has been validated by the perfection found in the letter placement discovered by the bible codes, for those that can't receive the witness of the Spirit.
In the same way that Moses forbid the making of graven images or golden calves, (in that age more child like minds really did thing the spirit of God was in the material object) man departed from the "Living Word" when he made a fetish of the scriptures. Nothing that the hand of man has touched can be considered the infallible word of God.
All of the OT books were edited and redacted during the devastating period of the Babylonian captivity. The Hebrew priest class converted ordinary secular history into a miraculous fiction. Their audience was the scattered Israelites who had lost their national identity. They did NOT claim to be writing the word of God, the Priest of latter generations used the OT books to derive their "authority".
"(1004.6) 92:2.3 When modern man wonders at the presentation of so much in the scriptures of different religions that may be regarded as obscene, he should pause to consider that passing generations have feared to eliminate what their ancestors deemed to be holy and sacred. A great deal that one generation might look upon as obscene, preceding generations have considered a part of their accepted mores, even as approved religious rituals. A considerable amount of religious controversy has been occasioned by the never-ending attempts to reconcile olden but reprehensible practices with newly advanced reason, to find plausible theories in justification of creedal perpetuation of ancient and outworn customs."
I am a follower of Jesus, not Paul. Paul was (unintentionally) a corrupter of the gospel; he brought his own old Pagan ideas into his Christian religion about Jesus.
Sorry, friend, but the guy who wrote two thirds of The New Testament, who probably had an I.Q. of about 175 or better didn't write any nonsense and CERTAINLY didn't corrupt The Everlasting Gospel. He's probably the greatest writer who's ever lived. The god of this world has a VERY strong hold on your mind. You might consider tearing that thing down because: it's an idol.
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7
The "Word of God" is a living word, not the dead words that have been the channel of "The Word." The books that comprise the bible do not claim to be "The Word". The Bible says that "The Word" is spoken any time truth is spoken across all time. The Bible says that "The Son" is "The Word." Bible idolatry has lead to confusion and stunted growth. The Jews still live in the idolatry of their own man made scriptures.
Jesus is certainly The Living Word of God, since He quite literally is: God, in The Form of Flesh; but His Word is Truth. Jesus endorsed His Holy Word and you also miss out on the fact that men didn't author Holy Scripture...
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The 'more sure word of prophecy' which Christians have is The Holy Ghost living inside of them. He witnesses together with our spirit that we are children of God.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
We are actually living Scripture:
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
God's Word comes alive in men's hearts. He is The One Who makes His Word come to life. He lives in us. In non-believers, His Words are seed, but they don't produce fruit necessarily right away. Sometimes it takes years for His Word to turn the stony ground His Seed is planted in into fruitful soil... then it might take decades for that plant to produce life in the person in whom that Seed was sown. It might only be on one's death-bed that they receive His Word and come to salvation. It's a horrible waste of a life, but it's far better than an eternity in torment. You need to think about repenting today and sticking to God's Word rather than following some demon's snake-oil doctrine.
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7
Sorry, friend, but the guy who wrote two thirds of The New Testament, who probably had an I.Q. of about 175 or better didn't write any nonsense and CERTAINLY didn't corrupt The Everlasting Gospel. He's probably the greatest writer who's ever lived. The god of this world has a VERY strong hold on your mind. You might consider tearing that thing down because: it's an idol.
As strange as it may seem Aimiel, you do have quite a strong faith in the Satan God, you talk constantly about this devil God and have an intricate knowledge of his many ways.
I follow Jesus and the pre-cross gospel preached 3 years before the cross. Paul barged in and took over the direction of the movement making it more appealing to the Pagan doctrines of human sacrifice, blood drinking and flesh eating.
It is true that Paul dominates the New Testament while it is Jesus who dominates the original gospel.
Jesus is certainly The Living Word of God, since He quite literally is: God, in The Form of Flesh; but His Word is Truth. Jesus endorsed His Holy Word and you also miss out on the fact that men didn't author Holy Scripture...
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
The 'more sure word of prophecy' which Christians have is The Holy Ghost living inside of them. He witnesses together with our spirit that we are children of God.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
We are actually living Scripture:
Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
God's Word comes alive in men's hearts. He is The One Who makes His Word come to life. He lives in us. In non-believers, His Words are seed, but they don't produce fruit necessarily right away. Sometimes it takes years for His Word to turn the stony ground His Seed is planted in into fruitful soil... then it might take decades for that plant to produce life in the person in whom that Seed was sown. It might only be on one's death-bed that they receive His Word and come to salvation. It's a horrible waste of a life, but it's far better than an eternity in torment. You need to think about repenting today and sticking to God's Word rather than following some demon's snake-oil doctrine.
You are imagining things if you believe that the Bible says that God wrote it. God is not the author of confusion. The word is Living and quite available to people outside the books of the 7 different Bibles of the 7 different orthodox churches.
As strange as it may seem Aimiel, you do have quite a strong faith in the Satan God, you talk constantly about this devil God and have an intricate knowledge of his many ways.
Jesus warned more about hell than He spoke of Heaven. Hell is real. Devils are real. If you're ignorant of him, it's because you're in his back pocket. He doesn't have to bother those he leads around by the nose.
Quote:
I follow Jesus and the pre-cross gospel preached 3 years before the cross. Paul barged in and took over the direction of the movement making it more appealing to the Pagan doctrines of human sacrifice, blood drinking and flesh eating.
Jesus is The One Who said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." I take it that you have no life in you.
Quote:
It is true that Paul dominates the New Testament while it is Jesus who dominates the original gospel.
Paul isn't preaching Paul. He preaches The Gospel. It took a man of great intelligence to share with the world what Jesus spoke only in parables about. He doesn't want anyone to follow him, who considered himself the Chief of Sinners, but to follow Christ, The ONLY One Who deserves ANY praise at all... The One Who deserves all praise and all glory, The Son of The Living God.
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7
You are imagining things if you believe that the Bible says that God wrote it. God is not the author of confusion. The word is Living and quite available to people outside the books of the 7 different Bibles of the 7 different orthodox churches.
I just quoted where The Lord said that He authored The Holy Scriptures, but you can't see that, because you don't believe in Him.
"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." -- Amos 3:7
Jesus warned more about hell than He spoke of Heaven. Hell is real. Devils are real. If you're ignorant of him, it's because you're in his back pocket. He doesn't have to bother those he leads around by the nose.Jesus is The One Who said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you." I take it that you have no life in you.Paul isn't preaching Paul. He preaches The Gospel. It took a man of great intelligence to share with the world what Jesus spoke only in parables about. He doesn't want anyone to follow him, who considered himself the Chief of Sinners, but to follow Christ, The ONLY One Who deserves ANY praise at all... The One Who deserves all praise and all glory, The Son of The Living God.
No, Jesus said something different. That's a Pagan rewrite, the Pagan's were already doing that and already has a sacrificed savoir who ascended into heaven.
This is what Jesus really said:
Establishing the Remembrance Supper
(1941.6) 179:5.1 As they brought Jesus the third cup of wine, the “cup of blessing,” he arose from the couch and, taking the cup in his hands, blessed it, saying: “Take this cup, all of you, and drink of it. This shall be the cup of my remembrance. This is the cup of the blessing of a new dispensation of grace and truth. This shall be to you the emblem of the bestowal and ministry of the divine Spirit of Truth. And I will not again drink this cup with you until I drink in new form with you in the Father’s eternal kingdom.”
(1942.1) 179:5.2 The apostles all sensed that something out of the ordinary was transpiring as they drank of this cup of blessing in profound reverence and perfect silence. The old Passover commemorated the emergence of their fathers from a state of racial slavery into individual freedom; now the Master was instituting a new remembrance supper as a symbol of the new dispensation wherein the enslaved individual emerges from the bondage of ceremonialism and selfishness into the spiritual joy of the brotherhood and fellowship of the liberated faith sons of the living God.
(1942.2) 179:5.3 When they had finished drinking this new cup of remembrance, the Master took up the bread and, after giving thanks, broke it in pieces and, directing them to pass it around, said: “Take this bread of remembrance and eat it. I have told you that I am the bread of life. And this bread of life is the united life of the Father and the Son in one gift. The word of the Father, as revealed in the Son, is indeed the bread of life.” When they had partaken of the bread of remembrance, the symbol of the living word of truth incarnated in the likeness of mortal flesh, they all sat down.
(1942.3) 179:5.4 In instituting this remembrance supper, the Master, as was always his habit, resorted to parables and symbols. He employed symbols because he wanted to teach certain great spiritual truths in such a manner as to make it difficult for his successors to attach precise interpretations and definite meanings to his words. In this way he sought to prevent successive generations from crystallizing his teaching and binding down his spiritual meanings by the dead chains of tradition and dogma. In the establishment of the only ceremony or sacrament associated with his whole life mission, Jesus took great pains to suggest his meanings rather than to commit himself to precise definitions. He did not wish to destroy the individual’s concept of divine communion by establishing a precise form; neither did he desire to limit the believer’s spiritual imagination by formally cramping it. He rather sought to set man’s reborn soul free upon the joyous wings of a new and living spiritual liberty.
(1942.4) 179:5.5 Notwithstanding the Master’s effort thus to establish this new sacrament of the remembrance, those who followed after him in the intervening centuries saw to it that his express desire was effectively thwarted in that his simple spiritual symbolism of that last night in the flesh has been reduced to precise interpretations and subjected to the almost mathematical precision of a set formula. Of all Jesus’ teachings none have become more tradition-standardized.
(1942.5) 179:5.6 This supper of remembrance, when it is partaken of by those who are Son-believing and God-knowing, does not need to have associated with its symbolism any of man’s puerile misinterpretations regarding the meaning of the divine presence, for upon all such occasions the Master is really present. The remembrance supper is the believer’s symbolic rendezvous with Michael. When you become thus spirit-conscious, the Son is actually present, and his spirit fraternizes with the indwelling fragment of his Father.
(1942.6) 179:5.7 After they had engaged in meditation for a few moments, Jesus continued speaking: “When you do these things, recall the life I have lived on earth among you and rejoice that I am to continue to live on earth with you and to serve through you. As individuals, contend not among yourselves as to who shall be greatest. Be you all as brethren. And when the kingdom grows to embrace large groups of believers, likewise should you refrain from contending for greatness or seeking preferment between such groups.”
(1943.1) 179:5.8 And this mighty occasion took place in the upper chamber of a friend. There was nothing of sacred form or of ceremonial consecration about either the supper or the building. The remembrance supper was established without ecclesiastical sanction.
(1943.2) 179:5.9 When Jesus had thus established the supper of the remembrance, he said to the eleven: “And as often as you do this, do it in remembrance of me. And when you do remember me, first look back upon my life in the flesh, recall that I was once with you, and then, by faith, discern that you shall all sometime sup with me in the Father’s eternal kingdom. This is the new Passover which I leave with you, even the memory of my bestowal life, the word of eternal truth; and of my love for you, the outpouring of my Spirit of Truth upon all flesh.” *
(1943.3) 179:5.10 And they ended this celebration of the old but bloodless Passover in connection with the inauguration of the new supper of the remembrance, by singing, all together, the one hundred and eighteenth Psalm.
"Supper of remembrance", my foot. It was a Passover Seder. Jesus was a Jew, and He also attended the feasts, including the Feast of Tabernacles mentioned as the great feast He went to in secret, following behind the disciples who also went.
All this demonically inspired writer has done is try to blend science fiction, eastern philosophy, the bible, and their own bizarre ideas on things. I am AMAZED that any rational person could swallow this hook, line and sinker if they have read the bible AT ALL.
The depths and hidden things of the Word are MORE THAN ENOUGH for anyone who is truly seeking to know Him and His ways. WAKE UP!
Do this in rembrance of Me -
May 28th, 2012, 11:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burning Bush
"Supper of remembrance", my foot.
One view is the original Eucharist was more of a thanksgiving memorial supper, a ritual of 'remembrance'. The key emphasis is remembering the personhood, life, ministry, example and teaching of Jesus, in light of the kingdom of heaven, and doing the will of the Father. Jesus comes to bring us the bread and wine of spiritual truth, his living word.
Quote:
It was a Passover Seder. Jesus was a Jew, and He also attended the feasts, including the Feast of Tabernacles mentioned as the great feast He went to in secret, following behind the disciples who also went.
It would be a matter of research to determine just how they celebrated the Passover, if true to Jewish custom or slightly tailored with the Master's new revelation and interpretation related to what elements were taken. Naturally if Jesus was ushering in a new dispensation of truth to mankind, the good news of the Kingdom, it may come with new emphasis, innovation and translation of older customs, investing new meanings and values.
Quote:
All this demonically inspired writer has done is try to blend science fiction, eastern philosophy, the bible, and their own bizarre ideas on things. I am AMAZED that any rational person could swallow this hook, line and sinker if they have read the bible AT ALL.
Not having read the UB with an open mind or free of bias and preconceptions, you're not qualified to make such a judgment. Intelligence speaks for itself, in whatever context and framework, but one must first know/understand that context & framework. The Supper of Remembrance stands, and what is signifies and means still holds (however free from barbaric concepts of vicarious blood-atonement and other primitive sacrificial concepts which may have been woven into the symbolism).
The depths and hidden things of the Word are MORE THAN ENOUGH for anyone who is truly seeking to know Him and His ways. WAKE UP!
Yes, the logos of God is more than enough, yet that logos is not limited to only what men have 'canonized' as the 'Bible', for revelation is progressive and the Ocean of God's Spirit branches out in many streams. Truth is universal.
The Eucharist is an awesome subject, researching its historical development and hidden meanings, symbolic and literal. What is key is the symbolism and its spiritual translation, especially in the hearts and minds of those partaking of the elements relating to the kingdom of heaven and the spiritual communion each soul has with its spiritual Father.
Melchizedek had already attempted to substitute "bread and wine" as a substitute for blood sacrifices but after he left the tribes reverted back to the old ways of animal and human sacrifice. After Melchizedek made the covenant with Abraham he sanctified the agreement with the ceremonial bread and wine. That’s in the Bible fragments as well as the UB
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
“And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.”
Considering that Jesus was rejected by the Jews but adopted by the Pagans we can see how previously established customs within the Mystery religions found a home in the evolution of Paul’s Christian religion about Jesus.
The original “bread and wine” of Melchizedek and Jesus became the “blood and flesh” of Pagan familiarity.
"An inscription to Mithras reads: "He who will not eat of my body and drink of my blood, so that he will be made on with me and I with him, the same shall not know salvation." 1 In John 6:53-54, Jesus is said to have repeated this theme: "...Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." (KJV)
One view is the original Eucharist was more of a thanksgiving memorial supper, a ritual of 'remembrance'. The key emphasis is remembering the personhood, life, ministry, example and teaching of Jesus, in light of the kingdom of heaven, and doing the will of the Father. Jesus comes to bring us the bread and wine of spiritual truth, his living word.
It would be a matter of research to determine just how they celebrated the Passover, if true to Jewish custom or slightly tailored with the Master's new revelation and interpretation related to what elements were taken. Naturally if Jesus was ushering in a new dispensation of truth to mankind, the good news of the Kingdom, it may come with new emphasis, innovation and translation of older customs, investing new meanings and values.
Not having read the UB with an open mind or free of bias and preconceptions, you're not qualified to make such a judgment. Intelligence speaks for itself, in whatever context and framework, but one must first know/understand that context & framework. The Supper of Remembrance stands, and what is signifies and means still holds (however free from barbaric concepts of vicarious blood-atonement and other primitive sacrificial concepts which may have been woven into the symbolism).
There's where you're wrong. The Spirit qualifies me. Neither do I need to walk out in front of a truck to know it's going to hurt me.
I want to make something plain so that hopefully both of you can see the difference. I am NOT against gleaning in other fields, not one bit, because I know when He poured Himself into His creation He fragmented Himself, and because we were told we could eat of ALL the trees of the garden BUT the one (carnal minds of men).
BUT; HE has to tell you to go there to glean, or you've been led there by your own lusts, and therefore for YOU, it's sin. And the ONLY REASON, He tells anyone to glean is NOT TO STAY IN EGYPT, but to plunder the hidden riches of wisdom, being held in UN-righteousness, distilling them out of the darkness they are being held in, THROUGH THE MIND OF CHRIST, like the new wine of the kingdom.
In effect, taking those riches and translating them out of that kingdom of darkness (ignorance of Christ), and into the kingdom of light (understanding that ONLY comes through His Spirit).
When you have the pattern, you can look at ANYTHING under heaven, and see the truth that has been corrupted and where it fits into the pattern. Without the pattern and the mind of Christ translating it, it's still corrupted and does not profit you.
And He sends you into these kingdoms of darkness, so you can speak their "language" to carry others out that have been brought into bondage, not so you can stay and become one of their ambassadors. Daniel had all the knowledge of the Chaldeans, Moses had all the knowledge of the Egyptians.
And it's not hard to see which is which, when you've stayed in Egypt too long and with the wrong motive of the heart.
Romans 1:18 KJV
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
2Timothy 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women (SOULS) laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was .
Psalm 104:24 KJV
O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.
2 Samuel 22:12 KJV
And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies.
Isaiah 45:3 KJV
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
Yes, the logos of God is more than enough, yet that logos is not limited to only what men have 'canonized' as the 'Bible', for revelation is progressive and the Ocean of God's Spirit branches out in many streams. Truth is universal.
The Eucharist is an awesome subject, researching its historical development and hidden meanings, symbolic and literal. What is key is the symbolism and its spiritual translation, especially in the hearts and minds of those partaking of the elements relating to the kingdom of heaven and the spiritual communion each soul has with its spiritual Father.
Lets remember whats essential.
pj
Last edited by Burning Bush; May 29th, 2012 at 08:12 AM.
They weren't referring to their own writings as "scripture.".....but the RCC eventually made their writings scripture.
"Supper of remembrance", my foot. It was a Passover Seder. Jesus was a Jew, and He also attended the feasts, including the Feast of Tabernacles mentioned as the great feast He went to in secret, following behind the disciples who also went. 
Do this in rembrance of Me -
May 28th, 2012, 11:24 PM
Linear Mode
