A passage that SEEMS to support “eternal security” – until, however…
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love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
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A passage that SEEMS to support “eternal security” – until, however… -
May 29th, 2012, 11:06 AM
A passage that SEEMS to support “eternal security” – until, however…
Gal 5:41-24:
This psg [part of which was in this Sunday’s Mass readings] is often used to defend the notion of eternal security (once saved always saved).
This is what I believe the passage MEANS (My comments are in brackets, & are the only difference; emphasis is mine):
[By the way: For Catholics (at least), it goes without saying that a person cannot be “in Christ” to the degree necessary… while he has an unrepented mortal sin on his soul]
Gal 5:4: Stand fast and be not held again under the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul, tell you that if you be circumcised [with the idea that merely adhering to the Mosaic (meaning: Moses) law concerning circumcision, you will please God], Christ shall profit you nothing [since you trust in circumcision, and other Mosaic practices, rather than in Him], and I testify again to every man circumcising himself [with the thought that merely following such Mosaic laws is what is required for salvation], that he is a debtor to do the whole law. You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the [Mosaic ] law [This is not speaking of the law of the 10 Commandmnets…]: you are fallen from grace… for [when one is] in Christ Jesus [primarly when in His Real Presence in His Church] neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision: but faith [meaning: our connection to Him] that worketh […There’s that 4 letter word: work!] by charity
Admittedly, I cannot say whether the Catholic hierarchy would (totally) approve my view of this psg, although I am 99% sure they would. Maybe I will run it by a good priest. But in any case, I truly feel this is what the psg means.
This lack of absolute certainty reminds me of the ubiquitously-occuring problem that arises whenever Protestants and Catholics discuss theology, namely: whether or not we Christians require more (in our walk with the Lord) than the Bible (sola scriptura)… Even when we read the Bible, especially when we do so on “our own,” we need an ultimate “court of last resort” type of authority to infallibly interpret it. Otherwise, it’s: every man for himself, and God knows how many different interpretations we will end up with… The last time I heard, we have 50,000 different Christian and so called Christian denominations
This passage is the Word of God like all passages are, but it was written by humans—humans who, although inspired by the Holy Spirit, may have, in the writing process, left out a certain word here, a parenthetical comment or grammatical conjunctive (or whatever) there. With Scripture, we do not always know exactly what the original… shall we say, “primary theme” or “point” was…
None of us was there.
However, we all know about how, if a group of people are sitting in a circle, and one whispers to the next (such and such), by the time it gets to the last person in the circle, the original statement sounds entirely different from the original…
Interestingly, another part of the same passage entirely refutes the doctrine of OSAS:
(14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. But if you bite and devour one another; take heed you be not consumed one of another… [W]alk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would. [the things you would do otherwise, things you know Jesus commands]. But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the [Mosaic] law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, envies, murders, drunkenness, revelings and such like. Of the which I foretold you… that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God… And they that are Christ’s have crucified [killed off – not resignedly accepted] their flesh, with [its] vices and concupiscence…
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
May 29th, 2012, 11:21 AM
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, envies, murders, drunkenness, revelings and such like. Of the which I foretold you… that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God… And they that are Christ’s have crucified [killed off – not resignedly accepted] their flesh, with [its] vices and concupiscence
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
May 29th, 2012, 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
And they that are Christ’s have crucified [killed off – not resignedly accepted] their flesh,
How?
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
May 30th, 2012, 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
i crucify my flesh by saying NO to it
Col 2:11 (KJV)
When were you circumcised with the circumcision made without hands?
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
yeh, i know... protestants dont like that last one... and some dont like the sounds of any of them
but it works..
oh, i forgot...
confession
HI , and Gal 2:20 says how we are " crucified " and it is done and completed by God and not by " MAN " as CRUCIFIED is a Perfect Tense verb , Passive Voice and Indicative mood , and I know I lost you here , you will never understand , as it is Spiritually Discerned as 1 Cor 2:14 says , dan p
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
May 30th, 2012, 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAN P
HI , and Gal 2:20 says how we are " crucified " and it is done and completed by God and not by " MAN " as CRUCIFIED is a Perfect Tense verb , Passive Voice and Indicative mood , and I know I lost you here , you will never understand , as it is Spiritually Discerned as 1 Cor 2:14 says , dan p
Gal 5:4: Stand fast and be not held again under the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul, tell you that if you be circumcised [with the idea that merely adhering to the Mosaic (meaning: Moses) law concerning circumcision, you will please God], Christ shall profit you nothing [since you trust in circumcision, and other Mosaic practices, rather than in Him], and I testify again to every man circumcising himself [with the thought that merely following such Mosaic laws is what is required for salvation], that he is a debtor to do the whole law. You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the [Mosaic ] law [This is not speaking of the law of the 10 Commandmnets…]: you are fallen from grace… for [when one is] in Christ Jesus [primarly when in His Real Presence in His Church] neither circumcision availeth anything nor uncircumcision: but faith [meaning: our connection to Him] that worketh […There’s that 4 letter word: work!] by charity
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
-Galatians 5:4
Don't you mean Galatians 5:1-6?
Quote:
Interestingly, another part of the same passage entirely refutes the doctrine of OSAS:
(14) For all the law is fulfilled in one word: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. But if you bite and devour one another; take heed you be not consumed one of another… [W]alk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary one to another: so that you do not the things that you would. [the things you would do otherwise, things you know Jesus commands]. But if you are led by the spirit, you are not under the [Mosaic] law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are fornication, uncleanness, immodesty, luxury, idolatry, witchcrafts, enmities, contentions, emulations, wraths, quarrels, dissensions, sects, envies, murders, drunkenness, revelings and such like. Of the which I foretold you… that they who do such things shall not obtain the kingdom of God… And they that are Christ’s have crucified [killed off – not resignedly accepted] their flesh, with [its] vices and concupiscence…
Galatians 5:14-24
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
May 31st, 2012, 08:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
no idea what this means
do ppl just argue around here
by saying just any old thing?? just to be arguing????
You said you crucify your flesh by saying NO to it.
Col 2:11 (KJV) says that the body of the sins of the flesh are put off by something GOD does. It's called "the operation of God".
Which is right?
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
May 31st, 2012, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulToPaul
You said you crucify your flesh by saying NO to it.
Col 2:11 (KJV) says that the body of the sins of the flesh are put off by something GOD does. It's called "the operation of God".
Which is right?
bump for TSF
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
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