[Town Heretic]

Originally Posted by Nang

TH,

Speaking of "spirit," are you inclined to factor in the Holy Spirit regarding your experience, decision, faith, and assurance?

Nang

I do and have and am still mulling...at present I'd say that God gives every man what is sufficient for him to make the declaration, receive grace and enter into relation.

[Nang]

The teaching of I John 2:20-29 reveals an anointing and abiding of the Holy Spirit within the sons of God that is absent from unbelievers.

It is this Holy Spirit that guarantees everlasting life.

Ephesians 1:13-14

Speaking for myself, if I depended upon anything in myself or on any of my actions to retain faith and assurance in God's salvation, I would not last ten minutes!

I truly believe all faith , trust, and assurance in Jesus Christ should be credited to His indwelling chosen souls. (Romans 8:9)

[Town Heretic]

Originally Posted by Nang

The teaching of I John 2:20-29 reveals an anointing and abiding of the Holy Spirit within the sons of God that is absent from unbelievers.

I'd call that a fruit of relation. Sure.

It is this Holy Spirit that guarantees everlasting life.

Who's arguing against it? Not me at any rate.

Speaking for myself, if I depended upon anything in myself or on any of my actions to retain faith and assurance in God's salvation, I would not last ten minutes!

You aren't a sock puppet, but also not my point. If you rest in Christ you stand on that trust. It is, as I've said prior, an easy yoke. It's men that complicate things and turn into effort what is in actuality a surrendering.

I truly believe all faith , trust, and assurance in Jesus Christ should be credited to His indwelling chosen souls. (Romans 8:9)

I believe you misapprehend how God views time. I suspect I Am is more than we've invested in that revelation. I reject the notion that God is capricious. But thanks for your questions.

[Arthur Brain]

Originally Posted by Town Heretic

What's a thewhozzit and how do I look it up? Insidious.

Telescope? Else not the greatest of films but not that bad either...

No...faith is the general understanding that I trust something I'm incapable of fully apprehending or encompassing and yet I rely on its nature through what I can. Trust is established in the decision of reliance and remains absolute, as it logically and practically must. Else, that silly bit of hedging I offered, if more seriously and with less amusing consequences.

Why would it necessarily have to be something you can't apprehend or encompass? I can see why you'd say such in regards to God but as terms in themselves they could be applied to the mundane yes? For example I could have faith that a chair is sturdy and well constructed enough for it not to fall apart when I sit on it. I place my trust in it by doing so yet there's still the inexplicable possibility that it could break no matter how unlikely or remote that could be. I don't have absolute certainty in other words yet I'm still placing trust in the object that it will support my weight.

A bit backwards (something I'm sure you heard a great deal from instructors in school and family members, friends, passers by, as you grew into a parody of adulthood...where was I?)...oh, yes, trust is the decision to rely on the object apprehended, on God. But it is the opening of relation, so you aren't completely off (something you likely haven't heard as frequently).

Yes, excuse me a moment while I recover from these paroxysms of laughter I've just been suffering....

I understand that trust is a decision to rely on an object (or person etc) but certainty is still a separate entity IMO. I don't 'trust' that 2+2=4. I know it does. If you're certain on the nature of God as well as the relation attached then certain knowledge would still seem to do away with trust being anymore a factor.

Oh, and no, I don't hear the latter all that often but at least my head hasn't ever been used to clean the floor....

That's not bad (supra). But everyone here can trust in God. The difficulty or difference is in the apprehension and choice.

Well if you perceive trust itself as being absolute and without any measure of doubt then that still, to me, equates to certainty. Do you consider there to be different measures of trust?

Partly my fault for setting out what follows that trust without distinguishing it from the apprehension and choice, the reliance on the object and not self. If they're still doing it they're simply being goofy.

Fair enough.

Hopefully my above clarified the ongoing nature and necessity of trust in that object/God.


I think I've addressed that as well, but my certainty rests on my trust which rests on the decision I made in apprehending. Faith is my willingness to engage that trust in the face of an object I can't encompass.

Well, I've addressed my current issues with this earlier. It seems that faith, then trust have led to certainty.

I think we're looking at the same thing, but his approach differs and our lexicon is a muddle. It was a relief to have a sense that at the last of our give and take he'd come to see what I wasn't attempting and to see that perspective/lexicon/choice distinction between us as an honorable if potentially impervious wall.

It does get complicated sometimes.

Because our first thought is of ourselves and we learn to measure the world by that and in relation to our judgment of it. In Western culture that's hammered like an absolute. It's really more remarkable that the Christian faith has found a home in that and completely unsurprising, now that I've considered it, that the nature of the overlay can frequently cause the particular problem I note. It would also explain a great deal of the falling away around the edges that the West is experiencing...I'm going to have to mull it a bit more. I suspect I have at least part of the answer, but it's going to take more than that to upset and alter that wave.

I think also it has to do with the tangible, especially that which can be physically proven. Just a thought.

That's the spirit! Or, in your case and more likely, the spirits.

It's Saturday night here - which means sherry thank you so very much...

[Town Heretic]

Crud. I had a reply, then timed out, went back and copied it to post after I logged on but got distracted by Herodthenotsoswift and copied a bit of his text to note a case for a perma ban...now I've lost my response.

I'll try again later.

[Arthur Brain]

Originally Posted by Town Heretic

Crud. I had a reply, then timed out, went back and copied it to post after I logged on but got distracted by Herodthenotsoswift and copied a bit of his text to note a case for a perma ban...now I've lost my response.

I'll try again later.

Almost sounds like a film synopsis....

Will look forward to a hopefully less trouble laden response soon.

[Nang]

Originally Posted by Town Heretic

I'd call that a fruit of relation. Sure.

Thank you for enduring my questions, but how do you define "relation?"

The Open Theists (aka godrulz) constantly deny my Reformed faith, by claiming it does not provide their definition of "relationship" between God and man.

My answer: Who else can intercede between God and man and establish such "relationship" but the Mediator Jesus Christ, and the Person of His Holy Spirit who is commissioned by Christ, to convict the world of righteousness and/or judgement. John 16:7-11

Who's arguing against it? Not me at any rate.

No, but so far I do not see you arguing for a necessary and Godly third-party to define faith, trust, and assurance.

I believe you misapprehend how God views time.

How so, and what is the relevance of this critique?

I suspect I Am is more than we've invested in that revelation.

Prolly . . .

I reject the notion that God is capricious.

Me too . . .

But thanks for your questions.

You are welcome, but does this mean I have been summarily dismissed, from proceeding further in my inquiry?



Nang