What does it mean to "Take up your cross and follow me"?
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Are you saying that we are picking up the same cross that Christ did?
Only he made the sacrifice which enables us to follow?
I think I'm more defining what "cross-death" signifies in the New Testament. To die on the cross is to suffer under the curses of the law (rather than the blessings). Jesus in calling us to follow him commands us to live in the same way as he did (and in this way fulfill his covenant, his "law," as Paul would put it [see Gal. 6:1-5]): i.e. to be willing to suffer curses under Torah for the sake of the lost (to be found with Jesus among sinners bringing them to God). Though we leave behind the law and its blessings we remain under the promise God made to Abram long ago (and with the God who made that promise).
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 1:9 ---
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Reputation:
June 15th, 2012, 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
Read Rev. Ch. 2 and 3
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate to me.
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate to me.
That is unfortunate. What do you think this means?
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so
great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin
which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience
the race that is set before us"Heb 12:1
Slogan/motto:
Try to be civil in the face of incivility. This is a test.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 07:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
That is unfortunate. What do you think this means?
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so
great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin
which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience
the race that is set before us"Heb 12:1
As Winston Churchill said "We shall never give up. We shall never, never give up..." (He said much more and I may be paraphrasing here.
It is by the grace of God that we patiently, navigate the course which
is plotted for each of us.
I tend to agree with "Letsargue" when he points out that we are actually taking up "the Cross of our Lord" to get us home.
As Winston Churchill said "We shall never give up. We shall never, never give up..." (He said much more and I may be paraphrasing here.
It is by the grace of God that we patiently, navigate the course which
is plotted for each of us.
I tend to agree with "Letsargue" when he points out that we are actually taking up "the Cross of our Lord" to get us home.
If you take that understanding beyond what is intended to be understood you will miss it.
Jesus battled against His flesh every bit as much we battle against ours AFTER we come to salvation. The battle is our [everyday] cross every bit as it was His. Interjecting the cross of Calvary into this only muddies the water to make it be something we are given to do externally, not internally, as He did by going to it and bearing up under its cruelty. Overcoming His flesh, by His allegiance to His Father and, "by the Word of His testimony", is what the test is for us and will be more so as we see this age progressing to its end. Therefore, it is wrong thinking for us to assume all such affliction in our lives will be from the outside and believing it to be a cross given us. That just isn't true.. Our cross is our "flesh" we are given to overcome in this life. In doing so we strength our testimony and allegiance to our Father. Adam was given to do as well__before his transgression. We know the outcome just as well as we know the outcome of Jesus__who succeeded.__with the rewards and penalties remaining the same.
Slogan/motto:
Try to be civil in the face of incivility. This is a test.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
If you take that understanding beyond what is intended to be understood you will miss it.
Jesus battled against His flesh every bit as much we battle against ours AFTER we come to salvation. The battle is our [everyday] cross every bit as it was His. Interjecting the cross of Calvary into this only muddies the water to make it be something we are given to do externally, not internally, as He did by going to it and bearing up under its cruelty. Overcoming His flesh, by His allegiance to His Father and, "by the Word of His testimony", is what the test is for us and will be more so as we see this age progressing to its end. Therefore, it is wrong thinking for us to assume all such affliction in our lives will be from the outside and believing it to be a cross given us. That just isn't true.. Our cross is our "flesh" we are given to overcome in this life. In doing so we strength our testimony and allegiance to our Father. Adam was given to do as well__before his transgression. We know the outcome just as well as we know the outcome of Jesus__who succeeded.__with the rewards and penalties remaining the same.
Anyone who is NOT Trinitarian does not know what Jesus Christ was and is, all about.
I would not be so quick to criticize non-trinitarians. Jesus' deity was by no means an easy conclusion to draw (as necessary as it must be given the witness we have received about his life).
Israel's long-fought struggle with idolatry had made an association of God with a man nearly impossible. How could a man be God? Such a confession would fly in the face of what so many Jews in Jesus' day had come to confess on a daily basis: "Hear, oh Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." Even the disciples upon witnessing Jesus' activity found it difficult to accept him as God. Jesus' identity was hardly self-apparent, and given the roundabout way in which he preached his messages to the crowds (with the intention of confusing them), it is no wonder that many could not see him for who he really was.
Though I do not believe we can accept the Biblical witness without also affirming Trinitarian doctrine in the end (though the word "Trinity" in and of itself does not very precisely convey the right meaning) I do understand why people would be reluctant to draw such a conclusion, even as they read their scriptures. It is not a doctrine that I consider to be a "first principle" of Christian faith (though I do whole-heartily support it as an essential doctrine for a developing Christian faith, especially in the New Testament).
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 1:9 ---
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
That is unfortunate. What do you think this means?
"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so
great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin
which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience
the race that is set before us"Heb 12:1
“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses” — for me this is talking about the OT Saints who looked forward to the coming Promise, Who is the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He would do at the Cross to Redeem mankind.
“Let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us” — this can only be done as we understand that all things come to us through Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross, and that that must ALWAYS be the object of our Faith, which then gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives.
“And let us run with patience the race that is set before us” — the only “weight” God will allow in the running of this race is doing constantly what Jesus said for us to do in Luke 9:23-24.
“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses” — for me this is talking about the OT Saints who looked forward to the coming Promise, Who is the Lord Jesus Christ, and what He would do at the Cross to Redeem mankind.
“Let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which does so easily beset us” — this can only be done as we understand that all things come to us through Jesus Christ and what He did on the Cross, and that that must ALWAYS be the object of our Faith, which then gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives.
“And let us run with patience the race that is set before us” — the only “weight” God will allow in the running of this race is doing constantly what Jesus said for us to do in Luke 9:23-24.
How about loved ones in the Lord that have died in our lifetime. You seem to have excluded them. Why? Was that on purpose?
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bybee
Agreed.
This I have believed. Christ said that he came to fulfill the Law. I have thought that his gift to us is, in part, that we no longer need fret or be sad because we need not worry about fulfilling every jot and tittle of the Law. It has been done. But now we must love God and we must love our neighbor as Christ does.
They say I am not saved for believing this...hehe.
Salvation is a also a change of life. From the old man to the new man, the new man has a heart to love.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bybee
It could. I like Bright Raven very much!
I luvs all you peeps.....
but, paying attention to what someone else says I should believe, or practice is never going to happen.
Been there, done that, I got the Tshirt...LOL
Last edited by NewDay; June 18th, 2012 at 10:41 AM.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 03:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bybee
As Winston Churchill said "We shall never give up. We shall never, never give up..." (He said much more and I may be paraphrasing here.
It is by the grace of God that we patiently, navigate the course which
is plotted for each of us.
I tend to agree with "Letsargue" when he points out that we are actually taking up "the Cross of our Lord" to get us home.
The good news for us all is that due to the fact that when He saves us, He changes our hearts. He gives us the desires of HIS own heart, and makes us a new creation; wherein we no longer desire sin/the attributes of sin, pride, etc. We detest all these things/but, sometimes our flesh is weak, for He never renewed our weak flesh.
Our hearts/minds have underwent the change, though, and that is where He counts us righteouss, anyways.
Slogan/motto:
1 Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1Jo 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeisgood
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate to me.
Give 'em this verse:
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
This is the ONLY way the flesh is overcome.
Not by works.
By the blood.
Our works are rooted in Him, that means, He begins them, and He ends them.
June 16th, 2012, 07:01 AM
June 16th, 2012, 08:09 AM
The good news for us all is that due to the fact that when He saves us, He changes our hearts. He gives us the desires of HIS own heart, and makes us a new creation; wherein we no longer desire sin/the attributes of sin, pride, etc. We detest all these things/but, sometimes our flesh is weak, for He never renewed our weak flesh.
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