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Yes. Mostly considering "why's" and what led me here (the/my "many choices" you'd mentioned in a post much earlier in the thread). Also been considering what had led me to faith/trust in the first place. On a larger scale, considering what might lead people to faith.
I'm becoming clearer on some of those things (I think), as far as myself, but not necessarily about people overall. But they're related in the way I've been thinking about it.
I'm clearer that religion(s) specifically has played a big part in this for me. Which goes to what I had said in my OP about discussions at TOL playing a part.
I've been trying to type some of these things out more specifically, but each time I do, the words seem to fail, and also I think it might come across as more aggressively dismissive of religion than I want to be, especially at TOL, and with friends I don't want to be dismissive of... I'm aware that people have really been approaching me considerately, and that's made a big impact, and I want to do the same. I regret the places I haven't. I've been typing a lot and not posting.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
That's understandable zoo. It's hard to be stuck in a position where you can't exactly word something right. It's alright to just keep things at heart dude and I think you're doing a good job in the thread .
Slogan/motto:
Success is a journey, not a destination. So stop running.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoo22
I'm clearer that religion(s) specifically has played a big part in this for me. Which goes to what I had said in my OP about discussions at TOL playing a part.
I've been trying to type some of these things out more specifically, but each time I do, the words seem to fail, and also I think it might come across as more aggressively dismissive of religion than I want to be, especially at TOL, and with friends I don't want to be dismissive of... I'm aware that people have really been approaching me considerately, and that's made a big impact, and I want to do the same. I regret the places I haven't. I've been typing a lot and not posting.
I understand not being able to find the right words. But if you can get some specifics out, I am interested in what you mean by religion(s) playing a big part. Was it the arguing that goes on and the way in which people argue? The fact that we have so many different beliefs?
I understand not being able to find the right words. But if you can get some specifics out, I am interested in what you mean by religion(s) playing a big part. Was it the arguing that goes on and the way in which people argue? The fact that we have so many different beliefs?
Yes, at the simplest level. I mean, have a look around the religion forum. It's really pretty insane.
But I've been thinking about it on other levels regarding belief.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Slogan/motto:
Success is a journey, not a destination. So stop running.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 06:48 AM
Hey zippy, Finally getting back to this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy2006
You asked:
1 Jn 4:7 has your answer.
Modus Tollens:
1. If someone loves, then they know God
2. They do not know God
3. They do not love
And how do you determine #2? Is it easier to determine if someone loves? That verse says that lovers know God, not that God-knowers love.
Quote:
I'd guess always.
You should hope always. And know always.
If your position is that one can't love without God giving it to them and God gives to all, then I won't really argue about your position and I may even agree.
Quote:
I do not know the specific mechanism for the inner workings of grace.
You Catholics haven't figured that out yet? Geez.....
I've made a change, that some TOL friends might notice, and others might not have been aware enough in the first place to recognize...
Right now, I just don't know about God. I think I could label myself as a Deist or something, because I do believe in and have faith in a higher power, but recently, I'm more overwhelmed with my not knowing.
It's had a lot to do with TOL... Conversations, squabbles, differences that just don't make sense to me.
I hope that folks and freinds will take it in stride; I'm absolutely open to conversation.
Hi, zoo
I am taking you seriously lately because you seem to be interested in what I have to say.
I would like to introduce myself first.
I am serious Jesus' servant and have been striving to be obedient to Jesus with all my might without compromising.
It would be a super long post if I try to explain what I am doing in this forum.
In a nutshell, I have been exposing all Jesus' teachings and commandments which most mainstream churches are purposely neglecting to do the world.
I believe that differences are at the very core of community.
Without differences complacency sets in.
Complacency is the death knell of wisdom.
Without wisdom a community cannot prosper.
Without prosperity unrest sets in.
Unrest may destroy a community.
Our need for one another is a foundation guide to God.
Sure, I agree, differences are important.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Sadly, though, to the binary thinkers among us, "different" means wrong. Because the only choices they can recognize are right or wrong, and these are perpetually at war with each other.
Slogan/motto:
Try to be civil in the face of incivility. This is a test.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureX
Sadly, though, to the binary thinkers among us, "different" means wrong. Because the only choices they can recognize are right or wrong, and these are perpetually at war with each other.
With gladness of heart I choose to dwell on those among us who celebrate differences.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmoney
Hey zippy, Finally getting back to this.
And how do you determine #2? Is it easier to determine if someone loves? That verse says that lovers know God, not that God-knowers love.
Your question was "If there is no God, does love exist?"
I showed that if someone does not know God, then love does not exist for them. If there is no God then no one knows Him.
Quote:
You should hope always. And know always.
If your position is that one can't love without God giving it to them and God gives to all, then I won't really argue about your position and I may even agree.
Okay.
Quote:
You Catholics haven't figured that out yet? Geez.....
I'm out for the week, though I may peep in once and again if I find internet.
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
Sadly, though, to the binary thinkers among us, "different" means wrong. Because the only choices they can recognize are right or wrong, and these are perpetually at war with each other.
Where I'd say there aren't binary thinkers, only binary issues. And absent a fixed point up and down aren't telling you much that matters. I'd suggest that everyone liberated from a death camp was likely grateful that those liberating believed in good and evil and not merely difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy2006
....
I'm out for the week, though I may peep in once and again if I find internet.
Enjoy the lack of clutter then. Still looking forward to your answer on our last here when you have the time...that goes for you too, kmo.
Slogan/motto:
Try to be civil in the face of incivility. This is a test.
Reputation:
June 16th, 2012, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic
Where I'd say there aren't binary thinkers, only binary issues. And absent a fixed point up and down aren't telling you much that matters. I'd suggest that everyone liberated from a death camp was likely grateful that those liberating believed in good and evil and not merely difference.
Enjoy the lack of clutter then. Still looking forward to your answer on our last here when you have the time...that goes for you too, kmo.
Until then...then...
Even when choosing salad greens the idea of "merely different" simply won't do!
There are differences. We discern the value of one compared to another. Then we choose that which best suits us, sometimes for the moment, other times as our foundation upon which we build ourselves.
Except in picket fences I don't much care for uniformity.
Where I'd say there aren't binary thinkers, only binary issues. And absent a fixed point up and down aren't telling you much that matters. I'd suggest that everyone liberated from a death camp was likely grateful that those liberating believed in good and evil and not merely difference.
Okay, I don't think most anyone will disagree... No, no one is a completely binary thinker, and yes, the death camps were evil.
But different people's brains do work very differently in regards to black & white vs grey areas.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
No, no one is a completely binary thinker, and yes, the death camps were evil.
But why were they and why do we agree? That's the real question here. Relativity can never provide the answer.
Quote:
But different people's brains do work very differently in regards to black & white vs grey areas.
In nearly every respect, I'd imagine. I experience an illustration of that daily, being nearly completely color blind. I'm more interested in what's under all that processing, but I recognize what you're saying is true and that it impacts the question.
.
June 16th, 2012, 08:11 AM
Still looking forward to your answer on our last here when you have the time...that goes for you too, kmo. 
Linear Mode
