The Son equal with the Father; the Father greater than the Son
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The Son is the verb of God (word and verb have the same etymological root), the Father the noun.
So the Father is the noun "I", and the Son the verb "am" (to be).
"am" demonstrates "I' and does so exhaustively. Therefore "am" is equal with "I".
And yet "I" is greater than "am" in that it:
1. subsumes "am" anyway (which accords with the fact that the Son was in the Father, and which also accords with the fact that the Son shall hand the kingdom back to the Father: the "I" + "am" will compress to "I")
2. solely represents the notion that is PERSON, which is the highest possible phenomenon.
So "am" is equal with "I" and yet "I" is greater than "am".
So the Son is equal with the Father, and yet the Father greater than the Son.
Must be because the Son is also man, besides being God.
Paul is taking about Christ's reign at the right hand of the Father (vs. 25) which continues until the last enemy which is death is destroyed at the resurrection (vs. 26).
You need to take some courses in Biblical Hermeneutics.
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June 20th, 2012, 01:00 AM
Jesus Christ is of the "substance" of the Father. The Father/God is Spirit. that is why Jesus has been from the beginning. Incarnation brought in the Physical Jesus (i.e. flesh). Therefore Jesus was fully man and fully divine. God became man. Jesus Christ is my high priest and mediator in heaven. When I pray to God, God the Father sees me through Jesus. The Holy Spirit is also of the substance of the Father, but also of the Son. That is given to the believer. That Spirit is my connection with God.
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Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
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II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
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June 20th, 2012, 04:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossians
The Son demonstrates His equality with the Father in that He demonstates the Father perfectly.
Yet because He is demonstrating another who is not Himself, the Son necessarily declares that the One whom He demonstrates is greater than He.
Thus the Son is equal with the Father, and yet at the same time the Father is greater than the Son.
Your post is refreshingly accurate.
Jesus Christ did not demonstrate the entirety of God, but only those things that God showed him to do.
One obvious thing Jesus Christ did not do is be the Father.
Not of anyone and most certainly not of himself.
John 5:19-20,30
Jesus Christ was equal to the task that God laid out before him.
He was equal to do the will of God.
Even as we are.
We having been born dead in sins, we could not do God's will perfectly. Jesus Christ was not conceived or born dead in sins.
He started off with a clean slate and decided to do the will regardless of cost to himself.
He most certainly demonstrated God's will to mankind, for all those that have eyes to see and ears to hear
God, his Father is most certainly greater for God is God. God is his Father. Without God's love, Jesus Christ would never have been conceived of, conceived, born, raised up and God's will fulfilled.
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"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
I do... unless someone can prove otherwise. This speaks of the cross, and the "short time" before satan is thrown into the lake of fire. That period from the cross to our Lord's coming again is the "perfect" (1000) amount of time for the gospel to be preached and the earth to be ripe unto harvest.
Rev. 12:10-12
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Jesus Christ did not demonstrate the entirety of God, but only those things that God showed him to do.
The quantity of things is irrelevant. It is the quality of demonstration which proves Christ to be equal with the Father.
So nice try, but simplistic.
One obvious thing Jesus Christ did not do is be the Father.
Er...why obvious?
What was obvious about any difference between the Father and the Son?
And of course there is nothing obvious.
Which is why Jesus said: "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father".
So in fact the obviousness is the other way around: it was obvious He was equivalent to the Father.
Thus: "in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead". Seeing then that all the fulness of the Godhead must dwell only in God, we understand that Christ is God.
The Son demonstrates His equality with the Father in that He demonstates the Father perfectly.
Yet because He is demonstrating another who is not Himself, the Son necessarily declares that the One whom He demonstrates is greater than He.
Thus the Son is equal with the Father, and yet at the same time the Father is greater than the Son.
The Father is greater positionally with respect to the fact that Jesus temporarily took on an existence which was subject to human limitations, whereas the Father has never been subjected to limitations.
Its similar to the fact that he who is least in the kingdom is greater (meizon) than John the baptist. As people we are equal, but being born again and translated into the kingdom of God in this life, we have a greater positional advantage than what John had.
Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossians
The millenium is now. It is simply a figure.
Christ reigns now, until death is finally gotten rid of.
Hey...I completely agree...on both counts.
Satan has not been bound up yet. So the below cannot be the millenium you are speaking of. What period of history has there been a time of Satan not deceiving mankind for a thousand years.
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time" (Rev. 20:1-3).
Please refer to my current thread "Christ's 1000-year reign" for an explanation of the millenial reign. You will find that the OP proves Christ reigns only now, and you will find complementary clarification of this in my subsequent posts on that thread.
Must be because the Son is also man, besides being God.
Actually it's not.
The Father was greater than the Son before the Son came to earth. And the Father is still greater than the Son even though the Son is no longer man but returned to the state He was in before He came to earth.
The reason the Fathers is greater than the Son is quite simple really, and we tend to miss it. It is simply because He begat the Son and not the other way around. That is, fathers are by definition, always greater than their sons.
The ideal then is for a son to emulate his father so that he becomes equal with his father. Amongst those born of Adam, this has never occurred.
Christ is the only son in existence who has ever perfectly demonstrated His father. Thus He said "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father".
So the Father is greater than the Son simply because He is the Son's father, and the Son is equal to the Father because He demonstrates the Father perfectly.
Satan has not been bound up yet. So the below cannot be the millenium you are speaking of. What period of history has there been a time of Satan not deceiving mankind for a thousand years.
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time" (Rev. 20:1-3).
What is the one thing that keeps the nations from being deceived if not the Gospel?
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
When did salvation come? When was the strong man bound and why? I think it's so the gospel could go out unfettered.
Rev. 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Here satan is allowed to perform great miracles ...he has been loosed from the bounds that had been put upon him.
Revelation 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Must be because the Son is also man, besides being God.
Actually it's not.
The Father was greater than the Son before the Son came to earth. And the Father is still greater than the Son even though the Son is no longer man but returned to the state He was in before He came to earth.
The reason the Fathers is greater than the Son is quite simple really, and we tend to miss it. It is simply because He begat the Son and not the other way around. That is, fathers are by definition, always greater than their sons.
The ideal then is for a son to emulate his father so that he becomes equal with his father. Amongst those born of Adam, this has never occurred.
Christ is the only son in existence who has ever perfectly demonstrated His father. Thus He said "He that hath seen me hath seen the Father".
So the Father is greater than the Son simply because He is the Son's father, and the Son is equal to the Father because He demonstrates the Father perfectly.
Oops...no, can't agree with this. The Word was God, and the Word became flesh. A father, by human definition is as you say. Jesus cannot be defined by a human definition. He was God...the One God in the beginning. He took on the form of a servant. You can't use human ways to define the ways of God.
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