[mikeymikey]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Neither argument is worth believing.

The two sides of the argument being the literal interpretation of the Bible vs less literal.

Neither should be believed?

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by mikeymikey

Neither should be believed?

Right. You shouldn't read everything literally. That's silly. Nor should you believe Genesis does not mean what it plainly says. That is also silly. Genesis is historical narrative.

[mikeymikey]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Right. You shouldn't read everything literally. That's silly. Nor should you believe Genesis does not mean what it plainly says. That is also silly. Genesis is historical narrative.

Gotcha.

Finally someone with an opinion.

[Disciple_of_christ]

Originally Posted by mikeymikey

Some say that the Bible is a window to wisdom and understanding, and that it contains the truth within it's stories... that many stories of the Old Testament should not be read literally, but that they give an insight through the stories... such as Genesis.

Some say that the Bible is a literal account, and that everything should be literally accepted as true.

What evidence is there for either arguement?

Gen. 11:6-7 reads "And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech." It was God who scattered those who built the tower of babel because of their one language. This is the reason why we have multiple languages and must therefore study the bible in its own language and time.

[chrysostom]

Originally Posted by sky.

I'm not sure if this answers your question but this is what I am working on applying to the study of Scripture. Even if I don't the material I study does go by this.
------------------
WHEN THE PLAIN SENSE OF SCRIPTURE MAKES COMMON SENSE, SEEK NO OTHER SENSE; THEREFORE, TAKE EVERY WORD AT ITS PRIMARY, ORDINARY, USUAL, LITERAL MEANING UNLESS THE FACTS OF THE IMMEDIATE CONTEXT, STUDIED IN THE LIGHT OF RELATED PASSAGES AND AXIOMATIC AND FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS INDICATE CLEARLY OTHERWISE.


Seek the plain, literal meaning of the Scriptures.



The sum and substance of this most important rule is that one should take every statement of the Scriptures at its face value, if possible.

The following is an analysis of the adjectives "primary," "ordinary," and "usual."

"Primary" emphasizes the original, inherent idea in the term.

"Ordinary" and "usual" are practically synonyms, especially in this definition, "usual" being employed for the sake of emphasis.

"Literal" is used to emphasize the thought that every word must first be taken literally as expressing the exact thought of the author at the time when it was used; and one is not to go beyond the literal meaning of the Scriptures unless the facts of the context indicate a deeper, hidden or symbolic meaning.



Seek the figurative meaning only when the facts demand such an interpretation.

I like this

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by chrysostom

I like this

You also like boys.

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by mikeymikey

Apart from the obvious arguement about Genesis, there are a great number of Christians who believe that many of the stories in the OT should be taken for their message, and not as literal fact. Whether it's fact or not is of little importance. It is the message and wisdom gained from it that matters.

My question is about what evidence there might be to believe either arguement.

Fixed it for you. If they don't believe the Bible, they are not in the Body of Christ.

[This Charming Manc]

Strange so you now claim we are saved by biblical literalism in genesis, but you cant be bothered to follow to the teaching of jesus because it was not for you.

you have got yourself in a muddle nick are we saved by grace, faith in the literalism of the whole bible or works ?

Which is most important an application of the literal belief in Genesis or the application of the teaching of christ?

Originally Posted by Nick M

Fixed it for you. If they don't believe the Bible, they are not in the Body of Christ.

[This Charming Manc]

Doug I am firmly charismatic but seeing signs and wonders as a sign of gods approval and right doctrine is foolhardy and ignores clear warnings made by Jesus.

you really think God approves of Benny Hinns doctrine?

Originally Posted by Livelystone

The only acceptable evidence is the proof of God's presence and blessing on a ministry. When God blesses a ministry it is seen through signs and wonders that have always separated God's chosen from those whom do not follow after Him in obedience.

It is not how much you believe but what you believe in that matters, and that is why the apostles had their ministry witnessed with signs and wonders that are the only acceptable proof that God's blessing and presence is on a ministry.

Worshiping in spirit and in truth will result in signs and wonders! If there are no signs and wonders present is because there is a missing element of truth.

Blessings

Doug

[This Charming Manc]

Well deliver some, a well versed argument would be

• Define historical narrative
• Define what qualifies a scripture to be historical narrative
• Explain why Genesis meets your qualifications

With the fact that there is no evidence that relates the writer(s) of genesis to within hundreds of years of the events means we struggle to view it as histroric narative,

Originally Posted by Stripe

Evidence that Genesis is historical narrative is hard to deliver. Not because there is no way to reasonably come to the conclusion that this view is true, but because the fact is so starkly obvious that it is difficult to respond to the request for evidence without breaking into laughter.

Those who think Genesis is anything other than what it plainly teaches are deluded and insane.

Evolutionists.

[Nick M]

Originally Posted by This Charming Manc

Strange so you now claim we are saved by biblical literalism in genesis,

No you raging communist devil worshipper. It is evidence of what they believe. And they don't believe God.

[Jason0047]

The Bible should be read like any other document that you would read. You should it read it at face value unless there is an obvious indication within the text that it is employing the use of a figure of speech or a similitude. Oh, and yes. The Bible actually says that it uses figures of speech.

Hosea 12:10 - "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets."

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/similitude
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?...wed_in_frame=0

Why should you take the Bible seriously as you would any other non-fictional document? Well, because it is 100% true and factual and if you are wrong, then you are playing a huge game of chance with your eternal soul.

Do you doubt God's Word is true?
Well, there are plenty of evidences that back it up.

In fact, when I renewed my faith, I have personally catalogued 4 major groups that back up the Scriptures. These categories are Science, History, Ethics, and the Divine Finger Prints Within God's Word. Although I have come to realize that most people are not convinced by evidence, it can be useful to help those few people who are actually interested in seeking the truth.

Well, anyways, this is my list I have personally created for anyone who wants to research the topic on the internet for themselves.

Biblical Evidences: Supporting the Truth of God’s Word
(Have been found in):

(1) Earth & Space Sciences
(In Geology, Paleontology, Oceanography, Meteorology, and Astronomy)

(2) Physical Sciences
(In Chemistry (i.e. Periodic Table) and Physics (i.e. Natural Laws of Matter and Energy))

(3) Life Sciences
(In Botany, Zoology, Genetics, Human Biology, and Medicine)

(4) History: Anthropology
(Anthropological Evidences in our Modern Day Culture (i.e. Cultural Apologetics) in Current Pictorial Art, Literature, Linguistics, and Religion)

(Anthropological Evidences in Etymology, Chronometry, and Written Eyewitness Accounts within World History, and Church History (i.e. Ecclesiology))

(5) History: Archeology
(Philology (Such as the textual verifications of the Dead Sea Scrolls), Artifacts, and Architecture)

(6) History: Global Events
(Accounts of a Global Flood and A Long Day Within History (As described in the book of Joshua) have been recorded among hundreds of cultures worldwide)

(7) Teleology and Mathematics: The Statistical Probability for Life on Earth & the Beauty and Wonder Within Nature Itself
(The Amazing Chance of Perfect Life Conditions, Aesthetics (or Beauty), A Design or Order to The Universe (Micro-Physics & Biology (See the Sciences)))

(Things Within Nature That declare the glory of the Godhead)

(8) Epistemology: Absolute Truths
(Reliable Unchanging Truths that Beneficially Guide Us in Our Everyday Lives)

(9) Ethics: Laws Written in Our Hearts
(That Tells Us Certain Things are Wrong)

(10) Ethics: Laws of the Land
(Systems that Govern, Protect, Punish, and Hold Together All Societies (Which is a Reflection of the Afterlife))

(11) Bibliology: Fulfilled Prophecies
(The Fulfillment of Messianic Prophecies, Israeli Prophecies, Prophecies of Other Nations, and The New Testament Prophecy of Man's Denial of God’s 6 Day Creation and the existence of a World Wide Global Flood)

(12) Bibliology: An Attack on God's Word
(With Biblical Cults, Modern Bible Versions, the Anti-Creationist World Movement, and the Banning / Restriction of the Bible in Other Countries)

(13) Bibliology: Bible's Time Tested Moral Laws & Lessons
(The Statistics of People Improve When They Adhere to Biblical Moral Standards)

(14) Bibliology: Bible Numerics
(Message Based Numerical Patterns within the Scriptures That Glorify God (Note: This is not Bible Numerology that attempts to tell the future with numbers))

(15) Bibliology: Bible Codes or The Intricate Hidden Messages
(The Genealogical Line of Christ Message, The Hebrew "Torah-God" Message, Old Testament Typifications of Christ)

(16) Bibliology: Amazing Harmony of God's Word
(The Bible Has A Connected Central Character, A Primary Storyline, Major Themes, Moral Teachings, People, Places, and Events Listed (Without Error) And It Was Written in 66 Books Over Thousands of Years by Over 40 Different Authors)

(17) Thaumatology (Study of Miracles):
(Unexplained Miraculous Events that Have Taken Place as The Result of Prayer)

(18) Parapsychology: Spiritual Encounters
(Experiences From Both Good (i.e. God and his Angels) and Evil (i.e. Demons, and or Paranormal Activity such as Ghosts, and Aliens) (Note: certain aspects of study in this field should be limited or restricted for it is dangerous to seek out that which is evil)

(19) Christology: Jesus vs Other Religious Leaders
(The Uniqueness of Jesus Christ Versus Other Prophets or Religious Figures)

(20) Soteriology (Study of Salvation):
Testimonies of Born Again (Bible believing) Christians
(And Their Changed Lives)

However, to help you out in your research on some of these bible evidences: Here are two links you may want to check out (that will hopefully blow your mind)...

http://www.eternal-productions.org/101science.html
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml

In any event, after your have done an extensive and objective research on the Truth of God's Word, if you want to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, then check out one of these two links here...

For men:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0001/0001_01.asp

For women:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/1072/1072_01.asp

Please be well.
And may God bless you.

With loving kindness to you in Christ:

Sincerely,

~Jason.

[Stripe]

Originally Posted by This Charming Manc

Well deliver some, a well versed argument would be

• Define historical narrative
• Define what qualifies a scripture to be historical narrative
• Explain why Genesis meets your qualifications

Historical narrative - written works with the intent to transmit history. Pretty straight-forward.

Genesis qualifies as that is how it is introduced and referenced.

With the fact that there is no evidence that relates the writer(s) of genesis to within hundreds of years of the events means we struggle to view it as histroric narative,

Historians had to live within a certain time-frame after the events they talk about in order for their work to be classified as historical in nature?

[agnostic_gnostic]

If taken literally most of the Bible is absurd, especially Genesis. There are hundreds of self contradictions in the Bible if taken literally. Simply google "self contradictions in the Bible". Just one example there are two versions of creation that contradict each other.
However, if the Bible is read with more spirituality and sophistication (as it should be) it reveals profound truths.
Ironically, a literal interpretation of the Bible is a relatively recent phenomenon. During the scientific revolution, some believers wanted to be more scientific,quantitative and therefore ignored the spiritual side of the Bible and emphasized an empirical, historical interpretation. Such an interpretation must be literal (in order to be quantitative, measured, empirically validated) rather then metaphorical.

[This Charming Manc]

Originally Posted by Nick M

No you raging communist

Outright lie

devil worshipper.

Outright lie

It is evidence of what they believe. And they don't believe God.

See as you seem to be a compulsive liar why should I treat this argument as anything else?

However I suggest Jesus said his followers will be known because they love of one another, not because they take a literal view of the book of genesis.

Nick just to let you know though you scream your lies and hatred loudly and often at just about anyone who disagrees with YOU, they remain lies and hatred and don't magically turn into love and truth.

Tell me one what grounds do you call Jesus lord because you don't seem to have much time for his teaching.