What would be the point of Jesus if there was no fall?
ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Without The Fall much of Christian theology runs into trouble.
Some insist not only on The Fall, and even on there not being physical death before The Fall. The later belief means that the theory of evolution is a huge threat, so they will go to absurd extremes to deny that the theory works.
Slogan/motto:
"O Lord and Master of my life, give me not the spirit of sloth, idle curiosity (meddling), lust for power and idle talk.
Reputation:
June 30th, 2012, 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joaquin Gough
Serious question. What if there was no fall? There would have been no need for a sacrifice. Takes away the need, no?
I suspect that the lack of a fall was highly unlikely. God made us in His likeness, and like Him, we have free will... to reject Him. He gave us this free will so that we could choose to love Him. Without that free will, our love would be rather shallow.
It was pretty inevitable that there would be someone who would choose the self over God. God would have known this, as He knew what He had created. He would have known the fall would happen, simply due to free will.
Hence, your senario would never have happened.
Slogan/motto:
I know a lot of fancy dancers
People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
When you ask "Why'd you come here for?"
~ Cat Stevens
Reputation:
June 30th, 2012, 06:14 PM
If every elect person created in the image of GOD did not sin then there is no reason for Christ to die. The promise would remain for ever as the fulfillment of election for those who accepted GOD's purpose for their creation, but,
once they had the proof of GOD's divinity by the creation of the physical universe, why/how could they ever sin, ie turn against HIM?
So Christ would be forever honoured for the sacrifice HE was willing to make but never had to perform.
Peace, Ted
Wheat are NOT reborn tares !!!
Matt 13:36-43 good seed are sown by the Son of man tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil and, as per
Matthew 15:13 …Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up!
What would be the point of Jesus if there was no fall?
Exactly, that is Why this Word was Created for Jesus and His Redemptive Purpose !
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
I suspect that the lack of a fall was highly unlikely. God made us in His likeness, and like Him, we have free will... to reject Him. He gave us this free will so that we could choose to love Him. Without that free will, our love would be rather shallow.
It was pretty inevitable that there would be someone who would choose the self over God. God would have known this, as He knew what He had created. He would have known the fall would happen, simply due to free will.
Hence, your senario would never have happened.
That is tantamount to saying God set the whole thing up. Which is a fair point.
So God knew that his firstborn was going to create humanity that would in turn "fall" and would need redemption through his firstborn's sacrifice?
Why also did God bother with the first covenant if it was never enough? Does he disregard animal life so much?
The Purpose for this world's existence was for God to be Glorified through His Son redemptive death for sinners ! Jn 17:1-5
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
This Redemptive Work was given to Christ to do, before the world was, you feel me ?
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
The Purpose for this world's existence was for God to be Glorified through His Son redemptive death for sinners ! Jn 17:1-5
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
This Redemptive Work was given to Christ to do, before the world was, you feel me ?
I'm feeling it man, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling that you have just said that The whole creation was instigated with foreknowledge of sin and the need of a redemptive figure to deal with said sin. Ergo, and I don't think this is a huge step forward from what you're saying, God created sin.
I thank you! I'm here all week! Try the veal, etc.
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