Is there a scientific term for the refusal to accept testimony from leavers of religi
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Is there a scientific term for the refusal to accept testimony from leavers of religi -
June 30th, 2012, 10:44 AM
First of all, hello to everyone.
Secondly, can you answer my titular question?
Religionists put great store in testimonies. Indeed, during my time with a brethren church, I witnessed several such scenes. Testimonies seem to be a source of great strength to many.
Now, as a leaver of the Christian faith, I can give a testimony to how my life has changed as a result of said leaving. What's more, the emotional changes and my new-found freedom as a rational atheist have given me even more that I would love to share by way of testimony, but I doubt it would be too well received on a predominantly Christian forum.
However, the original point I posited is more to do with the testimony I and other ex-believers sharedwhen we were in the clutches of religion. I gave testimony then as others did, talking of the changes seemingly wrought in my life by God. At the time, these things were said in what can only be described as the spirit. These things felt as real as eating marmite on toast or peanut butter cups. They were genuinely emotional times. Yet, on many since leaving that behind, I have meet a mindset among religious people, Christians of course, who close to denigrate my testimony from that time. The prevailing response is that I probably never believed in the instance, given that I subsequently left the church and the faith.
That I have felt even more happiness since leaving that faith, and furthermore since I have read into and come to understand more of psychology and other factors influence the mind, I can completelyappreciate how religious experience and testimony can seem so powerful. The mind is an amazing tool, and nothing in this world can be as single-minded as a human convincing him/herself that something is "right". This is how I look back on many of my previous experiences, but at the time they felt so real.
The good news now is that I can separate the feeling I have as atheist from those back then, but I do dislike the quickness with which the religious fraternity can bat away shared and religious experiences of atheists or agnostics with a wave of a flabby hand and a quick-fire "you obviously never believed" or words to that effect.
I received much the same reaction when I tell people that I left the church. Christians are willing to accept the complete transition from non-believer to true believer, but reject the opposite happening. To accept that someone who once believed as strongly as they do has now reversed their world view is anathema to them. To admit that someone can lose faith is to admit the possibility of it occurring in themselves. And thus, anyone leaving the church was "never a true a Christian".
Now, as a leaver of the Christian faith, I can give a testimony to how my life has changed as a result of said leaving. What's more, the emotional changes and my new-found freedom as a rational atheist have given me even more that I would love to share by way of testimony, but I doubt it would be too well received on a predominantly Christian forum.
about like a Christians testimony on an Atheist site i would assume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joaquin Gough
However, the original point I posited is more to do with the testimony I and other ex-believers sharedwhen we were in the clutches of religion. I gave testimony then as others did, talking of the changes seemingly wrought in my life by God. At the time, these things were said in what can only be described as the spirit. These things felt as real as eating marmite on toast or peanut butter cups. They were genuinely emotional times.
a very accurate description i would say....been there, done that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joaquin Gough
Yet, on many since leaving that behind, I have meet a mindset among religious people, Christians of course, who close to denigrate my testimony from that time. The prevailing response is that I probably never believed in the instance, given that I subsequently left the church and the faith.
it's human nature i guess, but some of us no matter how old we get continue to think and act as a child while others grow up and put away childish things. i personally view this sort of thing as a sort of "cult" mentality. you can't walk away without becoming the enemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joaquin Gough
but I do dislike the quickness with which the religious fraternity can bat away shared and religious experiences of atheists or agnostics with a wave of a flabby hand and a quick-fire "you obviously never believed" or words to that effect.
i generally just take what these people say with a grain of salt.
i must say though that i find it interesting how a person who believed so completely in a Supreme being upon deciding that it isn't true automatically discounts every other God concept for Atheism/Anti-Theism. This seems to be the case mostly with former Christians.
Orthodoxy is just the Tyranny of the Majority, a Spiritual Despotism where accepted doctrine is Sacred, Untouchable self-evident truth no matter how absurd it may be.
Religionists put great store in testimonies. Indeed, during my time with a brethren church, I witnessed several such scenes. Testimonies seem to be a source of great strength to many.
Now, as a leaver of the Christian faith, I can give a testimony to how my life has changed as a result of said leaving. What's more, the emotional changes and my new-found freedom as a rational atheist have given me even more that I would love to share by way of testimony, but I doubt it would be too well received on a predominantly Christian forum.
However, the original point I posited is more to do with the testimony I and other ex-believers sharedwhen we were in the clutches of religion. I gave testimony then as others did, talking of the changes seemingly wrought in my life by God. At the time, these things were said in what can only be described as the spirit. These things felt as real as eating marmite on toast or peanut butter cups. They were genuinely emotional times. Yet, on many since leaving that behind, I have meet a mindset among religious people, Christians of course, who close to denigrate my testimony from that time. The prevailing response is that I probably never believed in the instance, given that I subsequently left the church and the faith.
That I have felt even more happiness since leaving that faith, and furthermore since I have read into and come to understand more of psychology and other factors influence the mind, I can completelyappreciate how religious experience and testimony can seem so powerful. The mind is an amazing tool, and nothing in this world can be as single-minded as a human convincing him/herself that something is "right". This is how I look back on many of my previous experiences, but at the time they felt so real.
The good news now is that I can separate the feeling I have as atheist from those back then, but I do dislike the quickness with which the religious fraternity can bat away shared and religious experiences of atheists or agnostics with a wave of a flabby hand and a quick-fire "you obviously never believed" or words to that effect.
Flabby hand? No underlying emotional response there I tall 'ya.
Since a majority of the church believes in a weak relationship with God, I don't doubt you were a true believer that fell away.
So to get to the heart of the matter: when you were a Christian, did you believe God knew the future exhaustively?
Good things come to those who shoot straight.
Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe
I don't doubt you feel happy. I've been full circle, although I was more agnostic than atheistic, and can remember how it felt to not have all the "thees" and "thou shalt nots" hanging over me. I don't know what your experience in the church was, but I was raised in a Grace based, but legalistic home.
In regards to the OP: I don't know if there is a term- I think lots of believers don't listen to/believe testimonies from folks similar to you because of insecurities. There are many here, including myself who think that your "leaving" is straight up rebellion. I do understand that rebellion all too well, and although it may not seem like it to you- it is. I hope you can read as much as you type on this site. There are awesome folks here- some headed north, some headed south. I hope and pray you listen to those who are north bound.
"Strong people are harder to kill and more useful in general" -Mark Rippetoe
I received much the same reaction when I tell people that I left the church. Christians are willing to accept the complete transition from non-believer to true believer, but reject the opposite happening. To accept that someone who once believed as strongly as they do has now reversed their world view is anathema to them. To admit that someone can lose faith is to admit the possibility of it occurring in themselves. And thus, anyone leaving the church was "never a true a Christian".
Sometimes in the zeal for reaching out to the atheist, those points are often not considered, or they're forgotten. The atheist is a person, not a project.
That sounds kind of harsh on a reread, and I don't mean it to be harsh at all.
Sometimes in the zeal for reaching out to the atheist, those points are often not considered, or they're forgotten. The atheist is a person, not a project.
That sounds kind of harsh on a reread, and I don't mean it to be harsh at all.
Why zeal for reaching out to atheists? Is the same type of zeal used in preaching to other religionists or agnostics?
If you were actually in Christ then you still are, whether or not you believe it. If you are not currently in Christ, you never were; for He will never leave you and He will never let you go.
It isn't that bad you believed it, as I mentioned it is the majority view. However, if you look at the root of many problems you have with God, a number of them have the problem of a supposedly loving God doing bad things. If you remove that problem then a lot of the problems with God don't logically follow.
So, leaving that idea aside for a moment, would you say you don't believe God because there is no evidence for God? Would you say the testimony evidence, as pointed out in you OP, is weak at best?
Good things come to those who shoot straight.
Did you only want evidence you are not going to call "wrong"? -Stripe
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