[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by RevTestament

So you don't believe Christ? - that man can come unto the Father through Him?

Oh yes, I believe we have to be abiding in Him. He is our life, and when He appears, we shall also appear with Him in glory. When He appears we will be given our spiritual glorified bodies. Until then, we remain in Him. We eagerly look for the day of His appearing, when we shall see Him as He is.

Colossians 3:2-4
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by RevTestament

Well, you show where he posted it before today - I posted it for all to read probably my first week. Wile hasn't been here that much longer than me - but of course he gets a nice check for being here. God will show who is ahead of whom. Anyone that believes in static trinitarianism is behind - they don't believe God but man.

You don't sound like you get it to me...you do know, don't you, that Jesus washed the disciples feet? Don't you think you need to have the mind of Christ, or are still hoping to be a god?

Mark 9:35
And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

Jesus is eternal. He has no beginning and has no end.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Joh 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Joh 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

You may ac tually stop peddling fable one day because you are not sure what you are actually saying:

Trinitarians do indeed believe that the Father is the only one true God.

Bright Raven

Of course!

They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct Persons; yet, they are all the one God. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

lWhen was He RICH in His earthly life? Answer: NEVER! So He must have been RICH previous to His earthly life.

Pity it is not yet written.

Why don't you print a new Bible which out of your great imagination?

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

No! Scripture shows that He became the "begotten" Son on the day of His resurrection, Acts 13:32-33. Scripture shows that God told Him this back in, Psalm 2:6-7. Was God speaking to someone who did not yet exist?

Perhaps you should read what you post for a change:

Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

I will declare... Not in the past!!!

...begotten thee.. Brought you to life in the unique way, the way I have never brought anyone to life before.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

You do not believe that Christ has an eternal nature friend?

Neither you believe:

Trinitarians do indeed believe that the Father is the only one true God.

Bright Raven

Of course!

They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct Persons; yet, they are all the one God. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God.

The Nicene Creed

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Jason0047

Malachi 3:6 -"For I am the LORD, I change not..."

Perhaps you drop your fables and begin speaking from Good's word:

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Do you think that Jesus was the LORD of Mal 3?

If so then why he was made the Lord?

Who was the one who made Jesus the Lord?

He must have been the greater that the Lord, mustn’t he?

Perhaps he was the LORD?

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

Where does scripture speak of His being created before time? Book, chapter and verse?

Where the scriptures say that he was created before Lu 1:35?

Could you people stop grilling this old man?

He has been losing what he new, brain drain and pain killers as he said.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

No Rev it's the end of you. If God is giving His glory to His Son, then His Son is the same God for Isaiah says that God will not give His glory to another [God], Isaiah 42:8.

You're sooo easy to refute Rev. You Mormons are the least intellectual of all the cultists here.

You might boast with your intellect while proving how little you are able to speak from God's word and how well you peddle your fables.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Jason0047

The problem with following religions or teachings that go outside the Bible...

Jesus did many miracles, rose from the dead three days later, and ascended into Heaven.

Good advice, apply it to yourself:

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

How can anyone imply that God died?

How could Man kill God?

How could a dead God rise Himself from the dead?

Jesus was raised from the dead:

Again, perhaps you should consider what God says and drop your silly fables:

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 3:15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
Act 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 10:40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Act 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
Act 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Act 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
Act 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom 4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
2Co 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by godrulz

JW/WT error, doctrines of demons...

The demons which you also peddle?

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by godrulz

In fairness, Mormon apologetics (so-called) is far more detailed and advanced than JW stuff. Both are equally wrong in different ways. JWs are rationalists, but very shoddy in their pseudo-scholarship and dishonest in misquoting authorities, etc. JWs are more like Pharisees, but Mormons are more like Scientology or something (sci-fi, fairy tale beliefs, but with a Christian element). JWs are more indoctrinated, mind-control, with Mormons not being so concerned about biblical doctrine as fuzzy practices like family emphasis (good), moral living, etc. JWs are more argumentative and cannot think beyond their pat answers/indoctrination. Mormons do not know half of what their church believes/teaches over the years.

I bet you don't know what your church believes/teaches.

The less you know what God says:

Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by godrulz

...Jesus is preeminent over creation as the uncreated Creator...

Show it written.

[jerzy]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

Jesus delivered them out of Egypt, Jude 5 ESV.

Let's see:

Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

Do you know by whom Jesus was made Lord?

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Wasn't He the LORD?

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Take a good look at these:

Psa 33:6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.
Psa 33:9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word (rhema – utterance. Never Jesus) of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


So not the Lord Jesus but the LORD; the Father the only one true God created the worlds and saved from Egypt.

Drop your fables.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by keypurr

Not so friend. If they were of one substance he would not be an image but a part of. That one substance is a very big error in the creed. They are separated BR. one is God and one is the image of God. One has a God the other is God. If scripture says he is an image that means IT is a creation.

The Greek word for “Firstborn” is “prototokos.” It means, “the foremost, the beginning, the chief, the best.” 13.79 πρωτότοκοςb, ον: pertaining to existing prior to something else—‘existing first, existing before.’ πρωτότοκος πάσης κτίσεως ‘existing before all creation’ or ‘existing before anything was created’ Col 1:15. It is possible to understand πρωτότοκος in Col 1:15 as ‘superior in status’ (Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A.).

It doesn’t mean that Jesus was “born again,” but rather that He is the One Who makes it possible for all sinners to be born-again. Note that Jesus is called the first born, not the first created.

It actually refers to Christ being the Father or originator of whatever it is that is in question. For instance, in Colossians 1:15, Paul refers to Christ as the “firstborn over all creation.” This doesn’t mean that Christ was the first created being, but rather that He is the Source, Ruler, or Origin of all creation. In other words, He was and is the Creator. So for Christ to be the “firstborn” of the dead signifies not merely that He was first in time to be raised from the dead, which He wasn’t, but that He was first as it regards being raised from the dead never to die again, thereby having supreme authority over death and the dead.

As well, the statement about Christ, “the firstborn among many Brethren,” which Paul used in Romans 8:29, does not mean that Jesus was “born again” as some teach. It simply means that He is the Source, the Originator of Salvation, the means by which man is born-again, which He carried out by His death on the Cross.

John nowhere else except Revelation 1:5 refers to Christ as the “firstborn (prototokos),” though Paul uses it in Romans 8:29, Colossians 1:15, 18, and also in Hebrews 1:6.

In fact, there is no English word, the Greek Scholars tell us, which can adequately explain the Greek word “prototokos.” The word “firstborn” is the closest they can get, but the word does not adequately explain what 'prototokos' really is.