[textman]

"We don't need a cure for the weight of the world, cause it's floating round in the universe, just swinging like its tied by a string that you own; let it go." -- from 'Let it Go' by Dragonette

An atheist poster sayeth: I'm going to create man and woman with original sin. Then I'm going to impregnate a woman with myself as her child, so that I can be born. Once alive, I will kill myself as a sacrifice to myself. To save you from the sin I originally condemned you to. Ta dah!!!

Steve Hayes replies: ... What is it supposed to communicate, about what, and to whom? Perhaps we could try to deconstruct it. Here are some of my attempts at deconstruction ...

MarkA wrote: ... Your "deconstruction" seems to focus on speculation regarding the motivations of those who produced it. You never get around to actually refuting what it says.

wurm say: I noticed this also, and was somewhat confused by Steve's denials and claims that such ideas were "heretical".

MarkA: Like many atheists here in alt.atheism, I was a Christian for many years. Though the priests and clerics like to hide the absurdity in flowery language, the statement is an accurate distillation of the core beliefs of Christianity, is it not?

This is a darn good question, MarkA, and I would like the opportunity to address it. The first thing is to admit right off the top that the sin-based christian theologies have always been very popular with the historical churches of the past and present. I lay the lions-share of the blame for this squarely at the feet of that swine-saint Augustine; whose influence upon the western churches of the "dark-age" (after the fall of the roman-empire) was profound in the extreme.
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And as if that wasn't bad enough, the Reformers of the sixteenth century approached Augustine with the same intensity of gushing adoration that teen-girls today throw at Justin Bieber. And this meant that Augustine's vile influence was fully revived so that it could live on and also corrupt all the Protestant churches for the next five centuries! Now it's certainly true that Paulos was the first to apply atonement-theology to the cross, but it was Augustine who really takes the glorification of sin to the next level. No one outside the bible has had a greater impact on the development of Christianity down through the centuries ...
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Modern Christianity is what it is today because it is the product of church-history. It has become the religion of the scribes and pharisees in equal measure. It has three pillars which support the entire superstructure of the Christian religion. These foundational elements are:
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(1) Paul's atonement-theology of the cross
(2) the episcopal trinitarian-theology
(3) Augustine's sin-theology
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On the other hand, the religion that Jesus of Nazareth practiced has three very different pillars: (1&2) Love God and neighbor. See Mark 12:28-34. [Don't be fooled, people. There's nothing anyone can say (inside or outside the NT) to change the value or authority of this fundamental teaching. This is as authentic as it gets!] (3) The practice of absolute pacifism. Peace, baby; that's what it's all about. Dig it!
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Today Christianity is equally divided between the churches of the pharisees on one side, and the churches of the scribes on the other. And Augustine's vile legacy of sin-theology is equally at home in both camps! It's no wonder, then, that rational people such as yourself walk away from the Faith in disgust and contempt, for the true heretics in this scenario are the vast majority of "orthodox" christians who are completely deluded by this deeply entrenched sin-theology that warps and distorts every aspect of the Faith such that no one today can even conceive of any form of christianity that is not utterly corrupted by this ridiculous over-emphasis upon the supposed "sinful nature" of all humankind.
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No one ... *except* for the wurm. What if I told you that the Faith can and does exist apart from sin-theology (and the absurdity of trinitarianism)? Would you be interested? Would you (at the very least) give such a Faith a fair hearing before rejecting it outright? Or is it far too late for that? ... I am offering you a form of faith that is NOT based upon sin-theology, OR magical-thinking, OR priestcraft. Do you think that such a form of christianity is even possible?
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Trust me, it is not only possible, but it is here and available even now. It does NOT require you to disconnect your brain in order to walk with Jesus. It does NOT require you to wallow in wretchedness, and grovel in sinful unworthiness begging for forgiveness. This is the true form of christianity that starts from the recognition that human-being is not all bad, and *can* in fact be good and noble and something to be proud of. This form of christianity does NOT worship the HOLY-BIBLE-ALREADY, and does NOT demand stupidity as the cost of admission!
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... Are you interested enough to want to know more, MarkA?
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- the one who offers a better way ~ cybrwurm ;>
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P.S. Providence does not require supernatural intervention; it works just fine through synchronicity. For example: yesterday I heard a song on the radio, but the station didn't bother to mention its title or the artist. Color me miffed. But that very evening I not only got the title and artist, but a lot more besides. Hey smurfette, I luv firework; great song!