I don't see it as stealing, nor would the vast majority of my fellow Brits. In fact, I've only ever heard an American say that the system we have in the UK amounts to theft. We see the NHS as a national institution, a system that is fair. Yes it has it's problems as any human system will. But it ensures that rich and poor alike have equal access to healthcare. Why would ANY Christian oppose this?
Who are you to judge me and decide that I hate God? You know nothing about me. If you really want to go down that road then I could just as easily say that you hate God because you are against helping the poor.
Also, using your logic, then pretty much all British Christians are God haters because we support our universal socialist healthcare system. Is this what you think?
Who cares if you don't see it as stealing?
It is stealing. If I force you to give me money so that I can pay for something that my neighbor wants or thinks that he needs or has a right to would that be stealing?
And you are forced to pay it.
Rich and poor need to be made equal... What a bunch of liberal stool.
I am appointed by the living God to judge you. That is who.
I am not against helping the poor, I am just against helping the lazy. I know people that complain about the cost of health care and how they are afraid that they will loose their Government program. They have 4 bastard children, smoke a pack of cigarettes a day and say that they can't afford the one that place that they work at provides. But as I did the math for them in front of everyone they were exposed for their lies.
They spend $2700 a year on cigarettes, but they can't afford a non government funded health care program...
It makes me sick to my stomach that God hating liberals like you have so infected the USA that they think a government healthcare system is a good and Christian thing.
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 19th, 2012, 06:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
Who cares if you don't see it as stealing?
It is stealing. If I force you to give me money so that I can pay for something that my neighbor wants or thinks that he needs or has a right to would that be stealing?
And you are forced to pay it.
Rich and poor need to be made equal... What a bunch of liberal stool.
I am appointed by the living God to judge you. That is who.
I am not against helping the poor, I am just against helping the lazy. I know people that complain about the cost of health care and how they are afraid that they will loose their Government program. They have 4 bastard children, smoke a pack of cigarettes a day and say that they can't afford the one that place that they work at provides. But as I did the math for them in front of everyone they were exposed for their lies.
They spend $2700 a year on cigarettes, but they can't afford a non government funded health care program...
It makes me sick to my stomach that God hating liberals like you have so infected the USA that they think a government healthcare system is a good and Christian thing.
Who cares if you see it as stealing? It isn't stealing. Your analogy is flawed. I'm talking about people getting what they need. I ask you this: Would you deny healthcare to someone who can't afford it, even if it would improve their quality of life or save their life?
I have no issue whatsoever with my taxes going towards the healthcare system of the United Kingdom, to pay for the healthcare of anyone who needs it regardless of their socio-economic level.
I didn't say that the rich and poor need to be made equal. I said that I believe that anyone, whether rich or poor should have equal access to healthcare.
So God appointed YOU as MY judge did He? You call me a God-hating liberal. You are treading very thin ice there. I am a former homosexual who was saved by Jesus through the ministry of this website, and in fact I take what you said as a personal insult. Not only that, but I find your attitude and approach to be extremely rude.
I once again ask you, do you think that all British Christians are God-hating liberals? Because that is the attitude you put across. I think that many of my British friends would find this insulting to say the least.
Oh, and where in the Bible does it say that a universal healthcare system is wrong? Please, do enlighten me. Is this a Biblical position, or just your arrogant opinion?
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Location: Precariously balanced on top of a mineshaft
Rep Power: 157073
Other
More left than right
Slogan/motto:
Blah, waffle, moan, grumble etc....
Reputation:
July 19th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
Stealing is rebellion ( defiance, disobedience, rebelliousness, insubordination, subversion, subversiveness, resistance.) to God.
Is this what you do if you LOVE God?
If you agree with Rock Head on anything then pretty much you are in the Hate God category.
Gee, I bet you think the good Samaritan was a liberal wimp as well right? Hmm, not to mention all that stuff about the hungry, thirsty, needy etc. Why did you change your name from 'Just Tom' btw?
Slogan/motto:
It's only the fairy tales they believe.
Reputation:
July 20th, 2012, 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
Taxes that are just. The government has three legitimate purposes.
1. National defense
2. Justice system, cops, judges.
3. Infrastructure, roads, sewers, water.
Says who?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
These are things that an individual can't do himself...
Except that isn't really true. People can and do provide their own sewer and water in many cases. And certainly there are vigilantes if you like homemade justice. And people often can't provide their own health care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
Your health care is your responsibility, just like paying for your plumber.
Why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
All your love peace mercy and so forth is just sophistry.
And we know what yours is.
Eternal life is an easy promise to make and a hard one to fulfill.
Slogan/motto:
"Think about how stupid the average person is; now realize half of them are dumber than that"
Reputation:
July 20th, 2012, 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iconoclast
Taxes that are just. The government has three legitimate purposes.
1. National defense
2. Justice system, cops, judges.
3. Infrastructure, roads, sewers, water.
These are things that an individual can't do himself...
Private security firms, privately funded roads (profitable through tolls), private sewerage systems (not everywhere can be connected to the sewers, i.e. remote places), rainwater collection, and there are many other privately funded infrastructure projects.
They can all be done without government, the problem is they can't be done well. Just like healthcare.
Quote:
Your health care is your responsibility, just like paying for your plumber.
But isn't the plumbing connected to the publicly funded sewerage and water systems!?!?!
This is an analogy that advocates public run hospitals with a private sector component. i.e. you are advocating a mixed public/private system here, with the emphasis of resources on the public.
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 20th, 2012, 09:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrathca
Think through what you say!
I'm not sure that this is something he is used to doing. He's already shown how asinine his position is by calling me a God-hater for supporting universal healthcare, which leads to the conclusion that pretty much all British Christians are God-haters.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
But isn't the plumbing connected to the publicly funded sewerage and water systems!?!?!
Well, it's a sad story, really. Communities all over America paid to build their utility infrastructures like water and sewer and electricity systems. And after they paying for these for 50-75 years or so, the republicans came along and claimed these utilities would be cheaper and better run if they were privately owned, and because everyone loves to complain about government waste, we believed them. So we let the republicans sell our utilities to private crony conglomerates. No one knows where all the money went, of course, but we know it didn't go back to the communities that paid to build these utilities.
So, once the private crony conglomerates bought these utilities, they immediately began to look for a return on their investment, which meant not only recouping the money they paid out to buy the utilities, but gaining a nice fat profit as well. So now the communities that paid to build these utilities are paying for them all over again, PLUS, they are having to pay extra to profit the new private owners. And of course they have no choice in this, because the new owners are not elected officials, and because there are no other water and sewer electric companies to turn to.
So in effect, hundreds of thousands of communities were robbed of all the money they spent building their utilities, and are now being robbed in perpetuity by the monopolies that now own them. This is what the republicans call "deregulation" and "privatization", which they continue to claim is the magic solution to all our problems in America.
Here's a question: Do those of you in places with free healthcare feel any motivation to better yourselves so you can afford better health care?
I don't know what this means, for several reasons.
Are you asking whether we feel any motivation to better ourselves so we can contribute more fully to a universal healthcare system? Or are you asking whether we feel any motivation to better ourselves so we can remove ourselves from the state healthcare system (although still pay taxes for it) and pay for private healthcare?
Are you suggesting it is morally better to aim towards paying for private healthcare?
Personally, I have absolutely no inclination to better myself so I can afford better healthcare. Even if I earnt millions, I would still use state healthcare because, being a Socialist, I believe in state healthcare over private healthcare (profit-making healthcare, as opposed to charity-provided healthcare). If I did earn millions, I would probably contribute willingly to state healthcare (or some form of welfare provision) above the taxes I pay. Perhaps, for example, by establishing a student fellowship, or funding research or something. It's not something I've thought about in detail though, as it's never realistically going to happen!
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 23rd, 2012, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
That's what I thought.
And the reasons why he would say this, if they are the same as mine are quite simple.
1. The state healthcare system (NHS) is adequate for all of our medical needs.
2. Even if we pay for private health insurance, we are still paying for the NHS through our taxes.
In addition to this, even if I have private medical insurance, all emergency treatment in the UK is done by the NHS in an NHS hospital.
Unlike TCM, I'm not a top-rate taxpayer, but I do work and pay taxes. I have no problem with these taxes being paid into a system which provides medical care for all regardless of wealth (or lack thereof) and I don't know a British person who does.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
And the reasons why he would say this, if they are the same as mine are quite simple.
1. The state healthcare system (NHS) is adequate for all of our medical needs.
2. Even if we pay for private health insurance, we are still paying for the NHS through our taxes.
In addition to this, even if I have private medical insurance, all emergency treatment in the UK is done by the NHS in an NHS hospital.
Unlike TCM, I'm not a top-rate taxpayer, but I do work and pay taxes. I have no problem with these taxes being paid into a system which provides medical care for all regardless of wealth (or lack thereof) and I don't know a British person who does.
Okay, now that I have answers from the two I really wanted answers from:
Here's the follow up question: What if you didn't have NHS?
Linear Mode
