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Mohammed had the same problem in that he could not understnd what the christian ministers were teaching about this concept of Trinity.
It was not all Mohammed's fault, because most of the men flooding into Arabia and preaching Trinity did not understand it themselves.
So the politicl powers were quick to support Mohammed's nridicule of the Trinity as it seemed illogical.
The plitical powers had seen Rome fall before these same kinds of proselytizing "locusts" who were now swarming all over their towns and villages. The could see the churches start swelling and their own power disappating.
So ridicule by crying out "Allah is one" five times a day stopped these preachers in their tracks.
Today, Islam is vulnerable to the concept of Trinity, because Truth has a father, i.e.; the ever unfloding Reality which gives birth to Truth in its wake.
What is coming is the conversion of muslims to Christianity as commentary and discussions between the two religions get a second chance to teach Islam to stretch beyond the Law, Sharia, and let Truth take them into the 21st century.
The Koran proclaims and defends the Biblical Trinity.
It is only ignorant interpretation by islam which cannot see this message.
The equivalent of this is the Jews with their scripture set...
The Koran proclaims and defends the Biblical Trinity.
It is only ignorant interpretation by islam which cannot see this message.
The equivalent of this is the Jews with their scripture set...
Hmmm...
Teach me your arguments that support this claim.
I am troubled by the fact that in 813AD the caliph tiled a mosaic inside the Dome of the Rock saying that Jesus was not the son-of-God,...
"Much of the inscription on the inner side of the octagonal arcade exhorts Christians to depart from error of the Trinity and recognize the truth of Islam:
O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning God save the truth.
The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him.
So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - God is only One God. Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. ... Whoso disbelieveth the revelations of God (will find that) lo! God is swift at reckoning!"
Christ said he is The Truth and the Truth is in the father and the father is in the The Truth.
I can not tell one from the other, because Truth is the means by which I know the father.
I will agree that Truth is the mediator between myself and the Father, technically speaking. Truth is not Reality.
However, for me, Truth that corresponds one-to-one with Reality can not be distinguished one from the other.
By knowing the son of Reality, Truth, I know the father that ever onward unfolds the son from moment to moment.
///
'The Truth' is an epithet used to describe Jesus in the scriptures of half the earth's population.
1) ah, no...
Jesus described himself as Truth, personified, when he said in John 14:6, "I am the Truth,"...
Truth is not an epithet, but an Ideal.
2) Consider the whole chapter John 14, and see that Jesus tells Philip that when he see tRuth, personified right then and there, he IS seeing the father.
Jesus repeats again and agian that the Father is in the son, and the son is in the father, i.e.; Truth is the image of Reality, and Reality is the corresponding image of Truth.
3) Jn 1:3 ALL (real) THINGS, (phenomenally, i.e.; mentally), came into existence through him, (this concept of Truth), and apart from him, (this ideal of Truth), not even ONE (real) thing came into (actual) existence.
'The Truth' is an epithet used to describe Jesus in the scriptures of half the earth's population.
...ah, no...
John1:1 In the beginning was the Word, (i.e.; Truth: [John 14:6]), and the Word, (Truth, itself), was (synonymous) with God, (i.e.; Reality), and the Word, (Truth: [John 14:6]), was (indistinguishable from Reality), God (almigty for all men).
2 "He," (Truth, the symbolic Word to come: [Jud 1:3]) was with God, (the ever unfolding Reality), in the beginning, (that is, the initial unfolding of Reality is what as the Creation).
I fail to see the relevance to these verse in regard to Trinity.
This thread is not about the Trinity specifically. It is about the divinity of Malak YHWH. See the op.
Quote:
Please explain your point:
15 And he (Israel) blessed Joseph, and said, "God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day, the Angel (i.e.; God, as the messenger, himself), which redeemed me from all evil,...(God), bless the lads";
See the op. The premise is that Malak YHWH (the Angel of YHWH) is God. According to the New Testament Malak YHWH is Jesus.
See the op and subsequent posts by Apple7 and myself.
Here it is again,
And he blessed Joseph, and said:
“God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, The God who has fed me all my life long to this day, The Malak who has redeemed me from all evil, Genesis 48:15-16
Hmmm...
Teach me your arguments that support this claim.
I am troubled by the fact that in 813AD the caliph tiled a mosaic inside the Dome of the Rock saying that Jesus was not the son-of-God,...
"Much of the inscription on the inner side of the octagonal arcade exhorts Christians to depart from error of the Trinity and recognize the truth of Islam:
O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning God save the truth.
The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God, and His Word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him.
So believe in God and His messengers, and say not 'Three' - Cease! (it is) better for you! - God is only One God. Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son. ... Whoso disbelieveth the revelations of God (will find that) lo! God is swift at reckoning!"
Hi Dave,
I deal with some of your questions in this thread.
And he blessed Joseph, and said:
“God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, The God who has fed me all my life long to this day, The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Genesis 48:15-16
"The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013
Who is the God of Israel? The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?
Malak YHWH is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He said so Himself, Exodus 3:2-5
"The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013
And he blessed Joseph, and said:
“God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked, The God who has fed me all my life long to this day, The Angel who has redeemed me from all evil, Genesis 48:15-16
Hi Wile - good to see you back.
Jacob seemed to call him Elohim, but even this is not totally clear.
Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, Elohim, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the Elohim which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
As I have pointed out to you several times, YHWH also called His children, the Hebrews, Elohim in Ps 82, and the law cannot be broken as Jesus said. So perhaps Jacob is calling the angel Elohim, or perhaps he is distinguishing between the two saying Elohim sent the angel to steer him the right way and keep him from evil, so again crediting Elohim. Nevertheless, Elohim is not the name of the father nor the Son. It's meaning is more akin to the family of God. YHWH is a specific name or title attributable to the Father and the Son, but not necessarily other elohim. have a nice day.
Hi Wile - good to see you back.
Jacob seemed to call him Elohim, but even this is not totally clear.
Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, Elohim, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the Elohim which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
As I have pointed out to you several times, YHWH also called His children, the Hebrews, Elohim in Ps 82, and the law cannot be broken as Jesus said. So perhaps Jacob is calling the angel Elohim, or perhaps he is distinguishing between the two saying Elohim sent the angel to steer him the right way and keep him from evil, so again crediting Elohim. Nevertheless, Elohim is not the name of the father nor the Son. It's meaning is more akin to the family of God. YHWH is a specific name or title attributable to the Father and the Son, but not necessarily other elohim. have a nice day.
Jacob knew The Malek Yahweh to be God (Gen 31.42), and a member of ‘haelohim’…literally ‘All the Gods’ (Gen 48.15 -16).
• The Malek Yahweh referred to Himself as Elohim (Gen 31.11, 13; Exo 3.2, 6)
• The Malek Yahweh was directly called Elohim (Gen 16; 21 – 22; 31 – 32; Exo 3; 14; 23; Num 22 – 24; jdg 6; 13; 1 Kings 19; 2 Kings 19; Zec 2 – 3)
Hi Wile - good to see you back.
Jacob seemed to call him Elohim, but even this is not totally clear.
Gen 48:15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, Elohim, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the Elohim which fed me all my life long unto this day,
Gen 48:16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
As I have pointed out to you several times, YHWH also called His children, the Hebrews, Elohim in Ps 82, and the law cannot be broken as Jesus said. So perhaps Jacob is calling the angel Elohim, or perhaps he is distinguishing between the two saying Elohim sent the angel to steer him the right way and keep him from evil, so again crediting Elohim. Nevertheless, Elohim is not the name of the father nor the Son. It's meaning is more akin to the family of God. YHWH is a specific name or title attributable to the Father and the Son, but not necessarily other elohim. have a nice day.
God and Malak are not two persons Rev. It is synthetic parallelism. This involves the completion or expansion of the idea of the first line in the following lines.
1. God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked,
2. The God who has fed me all my life long to this day,
3. The Malak who has redeemed me from all evil,
Lines two and three are an expansion of the first line.
Jacob knew The Malek Yahweh to be God (Gen 31.42), and a member of ‘haelohim’…literally ‘All the Gods’ (Gen 48.15 -16).
• The Malek Yahweh referred to Himself as Elohim (Gen 31.11, 13; Exo 3.2, 6)
• The Malek Yahweh was directly called Elohim (Gen 16; 21 – 22; 31 – 32; Exo 3; 14; 23; Num 22 – 24; jdg 6; 13; 1 Kings 19; 2 Kings 19; Zec 2 – 3)
OK you got my attention with הָֽאֱלֹהִ֡ים or "haelohim." I am admittedly still learning Hebrew so will listen to all you know about this - it seems to have somewhat limited use. Where do you get the interpretation "All the Gods?" Jews themselves don't seem to agree.
have a nice day.
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