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July 31st, 2012, 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth
lovemeorhateme, there are a lot of scammers who scam off the welfare system here, food stamps, section 8 housing, welfare, wic, aid to dependant children, and on and on.
Helping people who are disabled and who cannot work is one thing, having entire family generations on welfare is another don't you think? A lot of people here unfortunately have it in their head that they are owed something, and its not for lack of work, its more that many refuse to work and or refuse to work for what they think is paulty pay and would rather have unemployment extended.
So it is here in many cases " a man/woman who wont work" instead of cant work.
Unfortunately that has also been the case here in the UK. The government have been trying to take action on this issue now. There are conditions which people must fulfil to be able to claim and get social security benefits.
However, I have at times in my life needed to use the social security system. I didn't want to claim, I didn't enjoy being on it, but I didn't have much of a choice. It was that or homelessness. Homelessness would then have left me with a total inability to get a job.
Though of course that isn't the case for healthcare as we are all entitled to that free at point of access regardless of financial and work status.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Unfortunately that has also been the case here in the UK. The government have been trying to take action on this issue now. There are conditions which people must fulfil to be able to claim and get social security benefits.
However, I have at times in my life needed to use the social security system. I didn't want to claim, I didn't enjoy being on it, but I didn't have much of a choice. It was that or homelessness. Homelessness would then have left me with a total inability to get a job.
Though of course that isn't the case for healthcare as we are all entitled to that free at point of access regardless of financial and work status.
But you didn't stay on it and make it a way of life and look for more ways to scam off others and then demand that others pay more so you could continue to do it.
That is the kind of thing i object to. In reality the church should be helping those in need. Many here think they have the right to take what is someone elses and use it as they see fit.
Unfortunately that has also been the case here in the UK. The government have been trying to take action on this issue now. There are conditions which people must fulfil to be able to claim and get social security benefits.
However, I have at times in my life needed to use the social security system. I didn't want to claim, I didn't enjoy being on it, but I didn't have much of a choice. It was that or homelessness. Homelessness would then have left me with a total inability to get a job.
Though of course that isn't the case for healthcare as we are all entitled to that free at point of access regardless of financial and work status.
Which do you think would be more efficient, establishing a welfare system and then establishing a policing regime to control it or teaching people to be good guardians of their own money?
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July 31st, 2012, 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
Well, no. It is about income redistribution. Helping those that can not help themselves is a wonderful thing. But it still isn't a part of government.
You shall not covet.
No, it's about having a system in place where people out of work have money to get by for essentials for themselves and their families. Without it there'd be more people in abject poverty and on the streets as reliance on charity be it from the church or else simply wouldn't come close in a sprawling modern suburban environment - or even an urban one for that matter. It has absolutely zero to do with coveting. It's utterly bizarre that you think that's somehow relevant.
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July 31st, 2012, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth
But you didn't stay on it and make it a way of life and look for more ways to scam off others and then demand that others pay more so you could continue to do it.
That is the kind of thing i object to. In reality the church should be helping those in need. Many here think they have the right to take what is someone elses and use it as they see fit.
How exactly would the church be able to help the hundreds of thousands out of work exactly? Just how would such charity be effectively implemented in modern societies - especially cities? Even with the welfare system in place there's still those who fall through the safety net and 'church charity' hasn't eradicated homelessness to any significant degree. What you propose is simply untenable in todays world.
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July 31st, 2012, 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe
Which do you think would be more efficient, establishing a welfare system and then establishing a policing regime to control it or teaching people to be good guardians of their own money?
I agree, those who will not work should not eat. That's not what I've been talking about. I'm talking about supporting those who, for whatever reason and through no fault of their own cannot work. From those who become too sick to work through to those who are made redundant from their job. It can take a few months for them to find a job. It seems that you would happily deny these people care and food.
There was this thing here in the USA called the civil war. 10's of thousands of men came back from it missing a limb. There was no welfare did they all starve? No their friends and families helped them. The government didn't take money in taxes and make others provide for them.
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Actually I know a large number of Christians here who believe homosexuality is a sin. People here are just a lot more polite about sharing their views than people like yourself. I still don't understand what homosexuality has to do with any of the issues I've mentioned.
So what if they believe it is a sin. Do they believe that murder is a sin? Should there be a punishment for it or should they be polite about it. I love how tolerance of crime is considered being polite. What delusion...
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I have never said that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves. I have said that I believe in the handgun ban that we have in the UK, especially considering our very low rate of gun murders. So I am pro-gun control. These verses say nothing about it being a requirement of Christians to be pro-gun.
Being in favour of gun control is not a sin and does not need to be repented of.
Keeping people from having a gun is a sin...
Peter was packing a sword...
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You seem to assume that everyone needing help is in need through their own fault, and that they cannot provide for themselves for reasons which are their own fault. This is rarely the case. Get out into the real world!
If they need help that is your responsibility to help them not the government.
Quote:
So it's now selfish and 'homo' to have concern for my neighbour? The last time I checked Jesus said, 'Love your neighbour as yourself'. I guess you must be reading a different Bible to me? I think you need a new dictionary too, as the last time I checked homosexuality had nothing to do with having concern for my neighbour.
Listen you wanker, "Love your neighbor as yourself" is an old testament teaching and do you know what it means? Of course you don't which is why you use it to support the sin of stealing.
17 ‘You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
The New King James Version. 1982 (Le 19:17–18). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
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The reasons for my past homosexuality are not what you have stated here, and for the record, they are also none of your business and they have NOTHING to do with the subject at hand. Your ad hom attacks do nothing to strengthen your position.
Yeah your homoism was special and different...
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So my married heterosexual father is now a 'homo'?
Wow are you dense..
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What do homo's have to do with socialist healthcare? What is your obsession with homosexuality all about? You sound like you belong in Fred Phelps' Westborough Baptist Church. I'm sure you would feel right at home there.
Homos hate God, they are mentally ill and they know it and don't care. They reject any truth, any standard other then the one that they make.
Every culture that has embraced homos has collapsed why is that? Look at the morass that Europe is in and we are headed to... Homos are leading the charge to get there.
Quote:
Just because Christians in the UK aren't generally as extreme or as rude as you are does NOT make them homosexuals.
I never said they were I said they were POOR Christians and very immature..
I know that my position can be biblically defended and my position on homos is totally correct.
On Judgement day I will judge you for your tolerance of the sodomite perverts and show you all of those whom the sodomites were able to seduce and get to succumb to the pathology that make someone susceptible to the homos. That blood will be on your head because you were "Polite" to the homos...
Let your love be without hypocrisy, hate that which is evil....
Except that the founders debated over the use of the term "God" and decided not to use it, because they did not want to give the impression that they were supporting a religious view. Especially a specific religious view (as in Biblical).
"God" isn't a name or title. He doesn't call himself that. Creator = God, all the same.
"God" isn't a name or title. He doesn't call himself that. Creator = God, all the same.
To you, "creator" = "God". But not so for everyone else. Which is why they specifically debated the choice of words, and decided to use the non-religious term, "creator", instead of the religious Christian term, "God". They specifically did not want to imply that their declaration was based in religious Christian ideals. They wrote about this debate in letters to each other.
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August 1st, 2012, 08:38 AM
Well, thanks Nicky for the "Repent...or go to hell, I actually don't care" rep but you see I have nothing to repent of here. The alternative would result in countless people and their families being in abject poverty, without food and shelter and more prone to disease - which they wouldn't be able to afford to get treatment for. So no thanks. You might be ok with that but not something I'd like on my conscience.
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August 1st, 2012, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe
Yeah. Both. You can both keep your money and the government can take it.
Did you wake up extra stupid today?
Nope, did you?
You can have a welfare system in place to protect those in need whilst encouraging return to employment and budgets etc. In your scenario anybody out of work (without savings if possible) wouldn't have any money to be a guardian of....
Many of the Christians that I know here in the UK hold views which are similar to myself. However, it seems to be from seeing the posts of Christians on here from the USA that they expect other Christians to be anti-welfare, anti-socialised healthcare and anti-gun control.
The more you study the Bible, the more you'll find that your socialist/redistribution of the wealth and anti self defense views are not consistent with it.
"Smoking cannabis makes people more intelligent."
Dope smoker and attempted Presidential assassin Oscar Romero Ortega-Hernandez
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