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View Poll Results: Once Saved Always Saved
Salvation cannot be lost, even if we renounce our faith completely.
Roman Catholics are taught that salvation is NEVER assured, not even for the Catholic popes. Salvation is a continuous process for the RC throughout their lives, hence the reason for the sacraments, confessional, etc.
The pseudo Protestants take that RC doctrine and put a spin on it but in essence believe the same as the RC's do but with a "Protestant" twist.
The reality is the true gospel of salvation is neither the RC dogma or the Protestant spin-off that people like AndyC believes in. The true gospel is that salvation is OF GOD and NOT of us. We can do nothing to earn it and we can do nothing to lose it, it is always of God. The minute we claim that we had something to do with it is the minute we become our own savior. When you come to the cross and leave it all in God's Hands, Jesus Christ is the Savior. When you come to the cross and leave it partially in God's Hands and partially in your hands, you become your own savior.
Holiness and obedience (as taught in the bible and the WCF) is the result of God's saving grace; not a requirement to being assured of everlasting life.
Chap XVII Art I
They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.
Justification IS salvation! The WCF is saying that perseverance is salvation.
How many of your sins were future when Christ was circumcised and rose again?
Col 2:11-13 (KJV)
"risen with him...having forgiven you all trespasses"
STP:
The Scriptures say all past sins are forgiven. Not future sins.
Romans 3:25 - “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God."
In fact, in the real world: if a person breaks the law again within their country, they must throw themselves at the mercy of the court again. The same rule applies to breaking God's laws. If a person breaks God's laws, they must throw themselves on the mercy of Christ again by confessing their sins. For He is our advocate working on our behalf.
1 John 2:1 - “My little children, these things WRITE I UNTO YOU, THAT YE SIN NOT. And IF ANY MAN SIN, WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE WITH THE FATHER, Jesus Christ the righteous:
Now, lets look at the next verse.
1 John 2:2 - "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Jesus is our Advocate in the cases where we fall and need Him to speak on our behalf again. But this always takes future repentance for future sins (Mark 1:15). The spirit has no more life in it the moment we follow the flesh, reaping the death penalty again (Romans 6:23) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Galatians 6:7-8). So it is that Christ died for all the world’s sins, for all have been called and chosen (Romans 5:8) (1 Timothy 2:4), but if it weren’t necessary to repent from past sins, then 1 John 2:2 would mean that all are justified no matter what, because Jesus died for every sin of every man. But we know that this is not so, and only past sins have been forgiven.
1 John 1:9 - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
In other words, do you think a general call of forgiveness of sins and acceptance of Christ would be the best way to describe this verse above? Also, if there are sins that are in the future that a believer has not committed yet, then how does one confess their future sins?
Does unrighteousness sound like a good thing in the following verse? Why is there a very strict warning about not being deceived if there is nothing to worry about within this passage?
1 Corinthians 6:9 - "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"
Last edited by Jason0047; August 5th, 2012 at 06:04 PM.
Christ does all the work on behalf of Christians so that they are free from any accountability whatsoever.
See, he doesn't really believe the gospel. He has to put forth his portion. Just like the vatican wants, and islam. And many other religions that say they are Christian.
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
August 5th, 2012, 07:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
Chap XVII Art I
They whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.
Justification IS salvation! The WCF is saying that perseverance is salvation.
Yes! No argument here that Justification is salvation. But the above quote says the "call" and "sanctification" and "perseverance" are part and parcel of the believer's eternal security, also.
I will try to make my objection to OSAS more clear:
OSAS is the belief that a Christian's eternal security is the result of a decision of faith on the part of the believer.
POTS is the belief that a Christian's eternal security is the result of God's eternal decree to save an elect people, unconditionally, for whom in particular He sent His Son to redeem.
Can you see the difference in basis, and the reason for greater assurance, found in the will and works of God rather than the will and works of sinners?
Nang
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”
The Scriptures say all past sins are forgiven. Not future sins.
Romans 3:25 - “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are PAST, through the forbearance of God."
You are a perverter of the gospel. You have fun with rulz in hell. You self righteous bloaviating actor. You should have scoured Paul's letter a little harder looking for condemnation. You would have found it. You just didn't find it here. All outside Christ are doomed. Those in Christ are free from sin and death.
Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
bybee, Jason here is one of the worst here. He is the hypocrite actor holding peoples hands on their way to hell. He perverts the gospel for the purpose of killing people. Shame on you, Jason.
And about no future sins, you vile heathen....
Romans 6:10
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
August 5th, 2012, 07:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by john w
"would ever commit such blatant sin... willful acts "-Nag
No such thing as a "blatant sin." Killing someone, or a "white lie"-still guilty. And no such "categorizing" sin/sins like you do, i.e., "willful acts," by a holy LORD God, or "intent," as pertaining for being in His presence. Same end-hot coffee, and toast in hell.
Memorize:
The righteousness of God.
The dbr settled the sin/sins issue 2000 years ago. You reject that.
The works of Jesus Christ settled the legalities of condemnation and guilt for all sins.
But sin still exists and remains in all human beings until the death of the flesh.
A Christian is to live as if their flesh died with Christ, but a believer cannot be delusional to the point of denying sin is still a present reality that must be dealt with and continuously be reckoned as dead.
IOW's just because sin is forgiven, and all condemnation and guilt is removed from our account with God by the grace of God, is not reason to deny that we remain human and subject to sin.
One must live in reality, and not in an imaginary ~Hollywood Dream World~ of sorts.
Nang
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”
Poor believers in Christ are being persecuted by rich churches in China who claim to be Christian. These rich churches do not have a visible transformed life like those of the poor home churches. The rich churches impose church membership fees and pagan sacraments. To the poor believer who accepts Christ, they are willing to die for the sake of the gospel and stand up for the truth because of their acceptance of Jesus. The converts of these home churches have changed lives. To the poor believer, OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) is a foreign concept and they are willing to die for the sake of the cross. OSAS is foreign to them because Jesus has changed their old life of sin into a new life living for Christ.
In fact, my Christian best friend who is resident in a non-English speaking country, has never even heard of OSAS. It is a completely alien concept. I have described the idea behind it and it absolutely stuns them that such a thing would exist.
OSAS has been popularized in English speaking countries because they are trying to make a dollar off people. For what do you think would offend less people? Accept Jesus and do what you want? Or accept Jesus and follow His Word? What sounds like the better financial option? It all comes down to money and not the truth.
Matthew 7:14 - "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
For a person can use Scripture to justify anything. However, it does not make it right, though.
Anyways, if you want to check out a really great article and a great video on the persecuted church in China, then please click on this link here...
1. If you renounce faith or become a part of another religion, you never were saved in the first place
4. If you never repent of your sins, you never were saved because those who are do not sin
This is not the only possibility. Heb. 3/6/10, etc. warns about the possibility of apostasy, true believers falling from the faith (e.g. Jewish Christians reverting to Judaism). Using your logic, if a person divorces, they were never married? Just as a genuine Muslim can become a Christian, so can a Christian become a Muslim, atheist, etc.
Will not, should not sin does not mean cannot sin.
Some were fakes/frauds and never saved, but others were and fell away. You have this loop hole to retain false OSAS, not because it is biblical.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
If there is no "loving obedience", is it a "saving faith"?
How much obedience?
Only God can know if a person's faith is genuine, but if it is they'll be born again. You can't put a measurable handle on a relationship. Either it is real or it isn't.
Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4
Poor believers in Christ are being persecuted by rich churches in China who claim to be Christian. These rich churches teach that you can live how you like, too. To the poor believer who accepts Christ, they are willing to die for the sake of the gospel and stand up for the truth because of their acceptance of Jesus. To the poor believer, OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) is a foreign concept and they are willing to die for the sake of the cross.
In fact, my Christian best friend who is resident in a non-English speaking country, has never even heard of OSAS. It is a completely alien concept. I have described the idea behind it and it absolutely stuns them that such a thing would exist.
OSAS has been popularized in English speaking countries because they are trying to make a dollar off people. For what do you think would offend less people? Accept Jesus and do what you want? Or accept Jesus and follow His Word? What sounds like the better financial option? It all comes down to money and not the truth.
Matthew 7:14 - "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."
For a person can use Scripture to justify anything. However, it does not make it right, though.
Anyways, if you want to check out a really great article and a great video on the persecuted church in China, then please click on this link here...
Therefore, I encourage you in love to seek the truth and not what you have been taught or want to see.
With loving kindness to you in Christ:
Sincerely,
~Jason.
You won't find ANY madists in countries where faith is persecuted.
Mad doctrine cannot work when a person comes any kind of legal obligation whether it is in the form of doctrine or government law.
Jesus said......
Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
He's not saying that baptism is a condition of salvation, but if a person's faith is genuine, they'll be open about following Christ. Baptism is the outward declaration of faith in Christ, so it is no wonder that mad doctrine attacks it.
Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4
You are a perverter of the gospel. You have fun with rulz in hell. You self righteous bloaviating actor. You should have scoured Paul's letter a little harder looking for condemnation. You would have found it. You just didn't find it here. All outside Christ are doomed. Those in Christ are free from sin and death.
Romans 6
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
bybee, Jason here is one of the worst here. He is the hypocrite actor holding peoples hands on their way to hell. He perverts the gospel for the purpose of killing people. Shame on you, Jason.
And about no future sins, you vile heathen....
Romans 6:10
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
All spoken to Christians who had problems.
Jason isn't the pervert here___You just can't read for understanding. Hmm, I wonder why??
You just can't read for understanding. Hmm, I wonder why??
I know what he is doing, he is getting people to think they have to turn over a new leaf. He is an enemy of the cross. Why? You ask him. Maybe he covets God's qualities like lucifer.
I know what he is doing, he is getting people to think they have to turn over a new leaf. He is an enemy of the cross. Why? You ask him. Maybe he covets God's qualities like lucifer.
Why would anyone be an enemy of the cross by getting Christians to think about their carelessness in Christ? Can you point to something specific you take issue with?
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