[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

Sounds like a Unitarian with a bucket of water and a car. Trins I know have the choice between 3 cars, with different accessories, at the dealers. Your example doesn't make sense.

To a trin it wouldn't.

Common sense logic escapes trins.

You should not take another trin with you should you ever go shopping for a car.

You too, might end up spending $15k on a bucket of water instead of a car.

oatmeal

[Lazy afternoon]

CONCLUSION --- JESUS CHRIST IS ALMIGHTY GOD!

Only those who willfully, volitionally reject what the Word of God says, choose to deny that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. I believe the Bible is the Word of God! If you do not believe what it is written in it, Jesus Christ is of no effect to you, you are yet in your sins.

======

Did you ever consider the possability that you are in unbelief of what the Bible does teach?

God raised up a man through Mary by His Word and temporarily dwelt in him during his ministry and at the resurrection made it permanent and more so.

Your idea gives it that Jesus came down from Heaven into the womb of Mary, into a little baby who had to learn wisdom, hide that He was God the creator, had no power as He had left it somewhere until God sent the Holy Spirit upon Him, who partly died on the cross, and raised Himself from the dead where He had been preaching to dead people for 3 days, entered Heaven where the Father God gave Him His Heavenly powers back to Him.

Trinitarians have learnt unbelief.

LA

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

Sounds like a Unitarian with a bucket of water and a car. Trins I know have the choice between 3 cars, with different accessories, at the dealers. Your example doesn't make sense.

Let me see if I can simplify it even further.

Your dog is at your right hand.

A trin believes that since Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God, that Jesus is God.

Your dog is on your right hand, therefore, using your logic, your dog is Bright Raven.

Since your dog is at your right hand, your dog and you make up a binity.

However, common sense logic teaches that since your dog is not in the same place as you, but at your right hand, that you and your dog are two separate beings. You are Bright Raven, the dog next to you is not Bright Raven.

oatmeal

[Bright Raven]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

Let me see if I can simplify it even further.

Your dog is at your right hand.

A trin believes that since Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God, that Jesus is God.

Your dog is on your right hand, therefore, using your logic, your dog is Bright Raven.

Since your dog is at your right hand, your dog and you make up a binity.

However, common sense logic teaches that since your dog is not in the same place as you, but at your right hand, that you and your dog are two separate beings. You are Bright Raven, the dog next to you is not Bright Raven.

oatmeal

That's rather absurd.

Let me see. Oatmeal is standing with his dog at his right side. Since i do not bark I'm not a dog so I must be Oatmeal

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

A trin believes that since Jesus Christ is at the right hand of God, that Jesus is God.

King David believed it:

In Psalm 110:5 king David used the special form of "adon" which is "adonay." This special form is the name used for God only, (see Strong's #136).

See also the TWOT:

When adon appears in the special plural form, with a first common singular pernominal suffix (adonay), it always refers to God

Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, pages 12-13.

Psalm 110:1:

The Lord said to my Lord (adon),“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

Psalm 110:5:

My Lord (adonay) is at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.

In verse 1 David called His Lord at Jehovah's right hand by the name "adon." But in verse 5 he says that the One at Jehovah's right hand is "adonay" which is used for God only.

Caiaphas believed it:

Caiaphas asked Jesus if he was the Christ, the Son of God and Jesus answered saying that he would see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power. Caiaphas then rent his clothes which was a sign to all that Jesus had just profaned God's name, Leviticus 24:16.

Trinitarians agree with king David and Caiaphas!

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

King David believed it:

In Psalm 110:5 king David used the special form of "adon" which is "adonay." This special form is the name used for God only, (see Strong's #136).

See also the TWOT:



Psalm 110:1:

The Lord said to my Lord (adon),“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

Psalm 110:5:

My Lord (adonay) is at Your right hand;
He shall execute kings in the day of His wrath.

In verse 1 David called His Lord at Jehovah's right hand by the name "adon." But in verse 5 he says that the One at Jehovah's right hand is "adonay" which is used for God only.

Caiaphas believed it:

Caiaphas asked Jesus if he was the Christ, the Son of God and Jesus answered saying that he would see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power. Caiaphas then rent his clothes which was a sign to all that Jesus had just profaned God's name, Leviticus 24:16.

Trinitarians agree with king David and Caiaphas!

Amen!!

[keypurr]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

Proofs taken from the Word of God, The Authorized King James Bible
NOT NIV, NKJV, NASB, TLB, RSV, et al — they corrupt this precious truth.

God is the only Savior
"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." (Isaiah 43:11)
To the only wise God our Saviour... (Jude 1:12)
God our Saviour. (Titus 2:10)
...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. (I Timothy 4:10)
God my Saviour. (Luke 1:47)

Jesus Is The Only Savior
...the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. (1 John 4:14)
...our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. (II Peter 3:18)
...God and our Savior Jesus Christ. (II Peter 1:1)
...the Christ, the Savior of the world. (John 4:42)
...the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. (Titus 1:4)
a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. (Luke 2:11)
Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:12)
...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. (2 Timothy 2:10)
...captain of their salvation (Jesus) perfect through sufferings. (Heb 2:10)
(Jesus)...author of eternal salvation... (Heb 5:9)

======

God Created The Universe And Earth By Himself
"I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself" (Isaiah 44:24).
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" (Genesis 1:1).

Jesus Christ Created The Universe And The Earth
"Unto the Son he saith... Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands" (Hebrews 1:10).
"By him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him" (Colossians 1:16).
"All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made" (John 1:3).

======

God Is The Word
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

Jesus Is The Word
"...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..." (John 1:14).

======

God Is The First And The Last
"I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I AM he" (Isaiah 41:4).

Jesus Is The First And The Last
Jesus said, "Fear not; I AM the first and the last" (Revelation 1:17).

======

God Forgives Sins
"The Lord forgiveth all thine iniquities..." (Psalm 103:2-3).
"Who can forgive sins but God only?" (Mark 2:7).

Jesus Forgives Sins
Jesus said, "Son, thy sins be forgiven thee" (Mark 2:5).

======

God Is Our Redeemer
"Thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer" (Isaiah 63:16).

Jesus Redeemed Us
"The great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity" (Titus 2:13-14).

======

God Is One
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD" (Deuteronomy6:4).

Jesus And God Are One
"I and my Father are one" (John 10:30).
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH GOD, and the Word WAS GOD... All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us" (John 1:1, 3, 10, 14).
Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" (John 14:9).
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE" (1 John 5:7).

======

God Has A Son
"The LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee" (Psalms 2:7).

Jesus Is God's Son
Jesus said also that God was his Father... (John 5:18).

======

God Is The Holy One
Psalms 71:22, "I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O MY GOD: UNTO THEE WILL I SING WITH THE HARP, O THOU HOLY ONE of Israel."
Psalms 78:41, "Yea, they turned back and TEMPTED GOD, AND LIMITED THE HOLY ONE of Israel."
Psalms 89:18, "For THE LORD IS OUR DEFENCE; AND THE HOLY ONE of Israel is our king."
Isaiah 10:20, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon THE LORD, THE HOLY ONE of Israel, in truth."
Psalms 16:10, "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; NEITHER WILT THOU SUFFER THINE HOLY ONE TO SEE CORRUPTION."

Jesus Is The Holy One
Acts 2:27, "Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer THINE HOLY ONE TO SEE CORRUPTION."
Acts 3:13-14, "The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath GLORIFIED HIS SON JESUS; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. BUT YE DENIED THE HOLY ONE and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you."
Acts 13:34-35, "And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer THINE HOLY ONE TO SEE CORRUPTION."

======

Only God Is Worshipped
"Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Matthew 4:10).

Jesus Is Worshipped
"While (Jesus) spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him" (Matthew 9:18).
"And again, when (God) bringeth in the firstbegotten (Jesus) into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him" (Hebrews 1:6).
And Thomas answered and said unto (Jesus), My Lord and my God. (John 20:28)

======

God Is Messiah
"unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder...and his name shall be called... THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER" (Isaiah 9:6).

Jesus Is Messiah
"The woman saith unto him, I know that Messiah cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he" (John 4:25-26).

======

God Is From Everlasting
"The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. Thy throne is established of old: THOU ART FROM EVERLASTING" (Psalms 93:1-2).

Messiah Yeshua (Jesus) Is From Everlasting
"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah... out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be RULER in Israel; WHOSE GOINGS FORTH HAVE BEEN FROM OF OLD, FROM EVERLASTING" (Micah 5:2).

======

Only God Is Glorified
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another" (Isaiah 42:8).

God Glorified Jesus
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was" (John 17:5).
"ALL MEN SHOULD HONOUR THE SON, EVEN AS THEY HONOUR THE FATHER. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him" (John 5:23).
"But unto the Son he (God) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom" (Hebrews 1:8).

======

God Is 'I AM'
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you" (Exodus 3:14).

Jesus Is 'I AM'
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58).

======

God Heals All Diseases
"Bless the LORD... who healeth all thy diseases" (Psalms 103:2).

Jesus Heals All Diseases
Jesus healed all that were sick... (Matthew 8:16)

======

God Is The Judge Of The Whole Earth
"O Lord God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom vengeance belongeth, shew thyself. Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a reward to the proud" (Psalms 94:1-2).
[Abraham to God]... "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25).

Jesus Is The Judge Of The Whole Earth
"For the FATHER judgeth no man, BUT HATH COMMITTED ALL JUDGMENT UNTO THE SON:" (John 5:22).

======

God Has Life In Himself
"The Father hath life in himself" (John 5:26).

Jesus Has Life In Himself
"In him (Jesus) was life; and the life was the light of men" (John 1:4).

======

God Raises The Dead
"The Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them" (John 5:21).

Jesus Raises The Dead
"The Son quickeneth whom he will" (John 5:21).

======

CONCLUSION --- JESUS CHRIST IS ALMIGHTY GOD!

Only those who willfully, volitionally reject what the Word of God says, choose to deny that Jesus Christ is Almighty God. I believe the Bible is the Word of God! If you do not believe what it is written in it, Jesus Christ is of no effect to you, you are yet in your sins.

======

JESUS CHRIST — GOD INCARNATE!

"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US." (Matthew 1:23)

Jesus Christ speaking "...if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins." (John 8:24)

Please point out the verses that say Jesus is the Almighty God.

I only need one.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

Did you ever consider the possability that you are in unbelief of what the Bible does teach?

God raised up a man through Mary by His Word and temporarily dwelt in him during his ministry and at the resurrection made it permanent and more so.

Your idea gives it that Jesus came down from Heaven into the womb of Mary, into a little baby who had to learn wisdom, hide that He was God the creator, had no power as He had left it somewhere until God sent the Holy Spirit upon Him, who partly died on the cross, and raised Himself from the dead where He had been preaching to dead people for 3 days, entered Heaven where the Father God gave Him His Heavenly powers back to Him.

Trinitarians have learnt unbelief.

LA

If the Bible verses DID NOT convince you, this won't either:

If Jesus is only a man and not God, then we are of all men most miserable, because Jesus would not be sitted at the right hand of the Father. He could not be the Lamb in the Throne room spoken of in Revelation, because the sacrifice had to be perfect and only God can be perfect — humans are imperfect as hell and — He only as a man — would have been imperfect and therefore dying on the Cross, being the sacrifice he offered, had to be rejected by God because it was imperfect. If this scenario is true men has not hope.

If Jesus is only God and not man, then we are of all men most miserable, because God would never have died on the Cross, because God cannot die. If this scenario is true men has not hope.

Man sinned. God did not sin. Therefore, man had to pay for the sin, but man could not pay for the sin committed. So, God in His infinite justice, love, mercy and grace, came himself in the form of His Son in a body prepared just for Him, because the infinite cannot be placed in the finite and died on a cruel cross, so that EVERYONE can come and receive eternal life, without works. Because there is not one human being in the world that can be good enough for God, no matter what we do say. So, He came Himself.

Either Jesus has to be God and Man at the same time, and that Man had to be perfect, and only God can be perfect, or we are of all men most miserable, there is no hope for anybody, Trinitarian or otherwise.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by keypurr

Please point out the verses that say Jesus is the Almighty God.

I only need one.

Being that Matthew is talking about Jesus, then,

"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US." (Matthew 1:23)

You can believe or reject what God says about Himself.

[keypurr]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

If the Bible verses DID NOT convince you, this won't either:

If Jesus is only a man and not God, then we are of all men most miserable, because Jesus would not be sitted at the right hand of the Father. He could not be the Lamb in the Throne room spoken of in Revelation, because the sacrifice had to be perfect and only God can be perfect — humans are imperfect as hell and — He only as a man — would have been imperfect and therefore dying on the Cross, being the sacrifice he offered, had to be rejected by God because it was imperfect. If this scenario is true men has not hope.

If Jesus is only God and not man, then we are of all men most miserable, because God would never have died on the Cross, because God cannot die. If this scenario is true men has not hope.

Man sinned. God did not sin. Therefore, man had to pay for the sin, but man could not pay for the sin committed. So, God in His infinite justice, love, mercy and grace, came himself in the form of His Son in a body prepared just for Him, because the infinite cannot be placed in the finite and died on a cruel cross, so that EVERYONE can come and receive eternal life, without works. Because there is not one human being in the world that can be good enough for God, no matter what we do say. So, He came Himself.

Either Jesus has to be God and Man at the same time, and that Man had to be perfect, and only God can be perfect, or we are of all men most miserable, there is no hope for anybody, Trinitarian or otherwise.

OR he could be a man with God in him.

[keypurr]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

Being that Matthew is talking about Jesus, then,

"...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US." (Matthew 1:23)

You can believe or reject what God says about Himself.

How was God with us?

God sent his son. John 3:16

[Pierac]

Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe

Sorry! I didn't read all your presentation. Still I can offer this; "You're wrong." Thanks for playing though....

Thanks for acknowledging that I spanked your Theology!

I love how you spiritual children expose yourself to the lies you blindly follow! Key word being... blindly!

You follow the same worn pattern of many here... You claim you did not read my presentation when you actually did read it!

Then you have the audacity to say I'm wrong without even a spiritual whimper as of why!

What your really posting is... I follow the traditions of men with out the need to defend what I am told to believe! As I (Grosnick Marowbecan) not expalin the truth you showed against my beliefs

One day... Grosnick Marowbe... Jesus will point his finger at you and say why did you not believe that I have a GOD! ( John 20:17 ; Rev 3:2 ; Rev 3:12 )

Jesus has a GOD!

Paul

[Bright Raven]

Originally Posted by Pierac

Thanks for acknowledging that I spanked your Theology!

I love how you spiritual children expose yourself to the lies you blindly follow! Key word being... blindly!

You follow the same worn pattern of many here... You claim you did not read my presentation when you actually did read it!

Then you have the audacity to say I'm wrong without even a spiritual whimper as of why!

What your really posting is... I follow the traditions of men with out the need to defend what I am told to believe! As I (Grosnick Marowbecan) not expalin the truth you showed against my beliefs

One day... Grosnick Marowbe... Jesus will point his finger at you and say why did you not believe that I have a GOD! ( John 20:17 ; Rev 3:2 ; Rev 3:12 )

Jesus has a GOD!

Paul

Why didn't Jesus reprimand men who worshiped him? Just wondering.

[Pierac]

Originally Posted by godrulz

They all worshipped Jesus as God Almighty in the flesh. Those who deny this are not Christians.

They? You mean the Greek converts who over hundreds of years put their platonic world view into Christianity?

Your modern non-Hebraic view is ultimately dependent on the view that religion is a movement from man to God rather than a revelation of God to man! You teach out of the Prophets and into Plato!

No scripture teaches the Trinity or that one must believe Jesus is God in order to be a Christian!


Paul

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by keypurr

OR he could be a man with God in him.

If the verses posted from the Bible do not convince you, how can I, a puny nobody, have the power to convince you of anything.

God can do whatever He wants to do. If He chooses to come in the flesh, He has no problems doing it. No problem at all.