If God didn't know the end of time from the beginning, then what He made wouldn't be good or even complete, it would just be a guess. He knows of a certainty everything that will EVER happen, since He is God. God knows who will pass and who will fail every test. The test isn't so that He can find out, it's so He can prove those who are His. It's so they appreciate Him.
Circular reasoning...
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Because He's God; He is sovereign; if He doesn't want to know He doesn't have to.
God is sovereign and does limit His foreknowledge by creating free moral agents. He cannot be ignorant of certain objects of knowledge in the universe. In your view, I can read the paper and know things that God does not? How you do not see this as compromising omniscience is beyond me. If you said that God could limit His power without compromising omnipotence, I would agree.
Open Theists rightly affirm God's perfect, exhaustive past/present knowledge, but limitations on future free will contingencies (yet still knows some of the future). Your unique view (perhaps Enyart influenced) is simply wrong.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
If by "read between the lines" you mean reading the very words written and believing what they say then I have to admit...I am guilty.
▲ Case in point...▲
I was addressing a typical OV problem and you fit the description rather well, unfortunately: "Deductive" was explained clearly, yet you took what you wanted rather than the explicit.
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 13th, 2012, 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
Untell, I thought you were perfect!
Nope. I'm not.
Thanks for thinking highly of me, though. But my aim is to express what I know, even if someone knows better than I.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
God is sovereign and does limit His foreknowledge by creating free moral agents. He cannot be ignorant of certain objects of knowledge in the universe. In your view, I can read the paper and know things that God does not? How you do not see this as compromising omniscience is beyond me. If you said that God could limit His power without compromising omnipotence, I would agree.
The Bible is very clear, and the most blatant example is Sodom and Gomorrah, and what He said regarding His reason for going there; God can be ignorant of presently knowable things if He does not choose to know them.
Quote:
Open Theists rightly affirm God's perfect, exhaustive past/present knowledge, but limitations on future free will contingencies (yet still knows some of the future). Your unique view (perhaps Enyart influenced) is simply wrong.
It is influenced by the Scriptures referenced above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimiel
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Before creation, there was no heaven or earth. There was only God.
Not an answer. Neither Heaven nor Earth are time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
The Bible, maybe? Or you don't read well.
I was at the top of my class for reading from preschool on. I tested at an eleventh grade level when I was in second grade; for reading and comprehension.
So, go ahead and tell me what part of the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac I misread...
Slogan/motto:
do unto others as you would have them do unto you
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 01:50 AM
knight: quote
Here is a biblical PROOF that GOD IS IN TIME and experiences change in sequence:
In the "eternal state" before the foundation of the world God the Son was not also the SON OF MAN; then He "became" flesh as "the Son of Man" and so the Son remains eternally "the Man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5).
Many theologians reject this proof that God is in time. Why? They claim that their historical-grammatical hermeneutic, that is, their primary method of interpretation, proves that God is not in time. So let's look at the relationship of God and time.
When Reading in "the Greek" about God and Time, We See that God is:
- timeless,
- in an eternal now,
- not was nor will be but is, and
- has no past
- has no future.
the bible quotes God as saying he is Alpha and Omega, beginning and ending, the first and the last. In this I can only see that time begins and ends with him.
it must be rather like an extension of him, or a sort of bubble, Which started at Genesis 1:1 the beginning of time. he created, he said "let there be light" or maybe more truly translated "light exist" and the Evening and the morning were the first day. God must exist beyond time for he caused time to generate.
cause and effect.
with time, when God spoke, was the real "immaculate conception" The Christ
The word of God, which was in the beginning with God, came directly from God, and yes carries with it the full weight of God. "born" of God and fulfilling the will of God in the manner of the "son of God".
If I glorify the word of God, then I glorify God. therefore it is truth when Jesus says "before Abraham was, I am." the word was given to Moses and to the prophets, to deliver to the people and thus becoming "the son of man"
the manna from heaven, that our souls must eat to live. but I digress.....
to get back on topic, time is the creation of God and he is at both ends of it, so he is able therefore to tell things before they happen. predestination has a truth in it, from Gods point of view, because he is the end.
but from our point of view, because we know not and are there not as yet, we have HOPE, and faith in the word of God in his promises. knowing that God does not lie, that through repentance and returning to obedience to the word of God, that if we overcome, he will give us a crown of life.
Last edited by tudorturtl; August 15th, 2012 at 02:01 AM.
Reason: seperation and clarity
Slogan/motto:
do unto others as you would have them do unto you
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 01:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
The Bible is very clear, and the most blatant example is Sodom and Gomorrah, and what He said regarding His reason for going there; God can be ignorant of presently knowable things if He does not choose to know them.
It is influenced by the Scriptures referenced above.
Not an answer. Neither Heaven nor Earth are time.
I was at the top of my class for reading from preschool on. I tested at an eleventh grade level when I was in second grade; for reading and comprehension.
So, go ahead and tell me what part of the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac I misread...
No. Neither heaven nor earth are time, but it also says thye evening and the morning were the first day, a day marks time. it was the first!
I was at the top of my class for reading from preschool on. I tested at an eleventh grade level when I was in second grade; for reading and comprehension.
So, go ahead and tell me what part of the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac I misread...
Not sure what part you missed in the totality of the teachings of the Bible. I guess you could be a fine "reader" but not gifted with understanding.
Slogan/motto:
joy and woe are woven fine, a clothing for the soul divine. Under every grief and pine lies a joy with silken twine - Blake (i.e., Romans 8:28)
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Then you won't mind backing up your claims with Scripture...
I wasn't at peace with the settled view when I reached an age of self reliance for my own critical thinking. It made no sense regarding the other things I knew of God, from Scripture. And I did not see any support of a completely settled view in the Bible. It was not until I was introduced to the idea that if I could not find it in His word and what I did read was contradictory to it that it was then untrue, that I found peace of mind regarding the issue.
No. Neither heaven nor earth are time, but it also says thye evening and the morning were the first day, a day marks time. it was the first!
Measurements of time are also not time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
Not sure what part you missed in the totality of the teachings of the Bible. I guess you could be a fine "reader" but not gifted with understanding.
Do you not know the meaning of the word "comprehension"?
And that fact that you can't point to a single verse that contradicts my argument; a verse I supposedly missed; just tells me, and everyone else reading this, that you're nothing more than a fool running his mouth and saying absolutely nothing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aimiel
It's a matter of reading and seeing what you want, versus reading as we're instructed to:
Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
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