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I think the third heaven is a spiritual place, not a physical one.
Nevertheless, it is part of the creation and has a beginning in time and is thus finite.
1Ki 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
I take 'the heaven of heavens' to be 'the third heaven'.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 01:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple7
Douglas,
Let’s review the intro to your book.
You made a point of stating this...
Interestingly enough, I would have to say that you are at stage two right now. Wouldn’t you agree?
You mean Jesus’ Throne of Judgment.
So…now you were told that your name was in the Lamb’s Book of Life…and yet, you participated in the Second Resurrection - which is relegated to the one’s going into the Lake of Fire?
Your dream contradicts scripture, Doug…
So the Elect became Gods?
You are sounding suspiciously like a Mormon, Doug.
Rev 22.9 refers to John’s attempt to worship Jesus’ angel who was showing him these things. That John was willing to worship this messenger lends credence to his expectation that Jesus was the Malak Yahweh as witnessed all throughout the OT.
Rev 13.8, 17.8 inform us that the one’s going to Heaven were already written in Jesus’ Book of Life before the world was even created. Why then, would these individuals need to be judged in the first place, Doug?
You defy scripture and logic.
The fact that you claimed participation in the Judgment means that your name was never written in the Book of Life.
The only one’s being judged are the one’s who deny the Triune God as He has revealed Himself in scripture.
What Jesus demonstrates in this Parable is the same exact thing as told to us in Revelation – two resurrections. Observe that the righteous are always mentioned first, and then the unrighteous.
It’s the same pattern over and over again, Doug.
You, however, still maintain that you are part of the Second Resurrection which involves Judgment of the damned.
You really should have debated this topic more than just bouncing it off a neighbor before going to the printing presses, Doug…..I mean really….no wonder sales of your book are flagging…
Yeah, Doug….please bring forth more evidence for my (I mean your) position….
The second resurrection is for all those who are not in the first resurrection, and the book of life is opened at the second resurrection--
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We also find that the persons of the first resurrection are standing with Christ at that time, present at that judgment--
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 01:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by steko
Nevertheless, it is part of the creation and has a beginning in time and is thus finite.
1Ki 8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?
I take 'the heaven of heavens' to be 'the third heaven'.
Well God just gets bigger and bigger.
No wonder men were scared when He came down on the mountain in the wilderness--
Exo 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
Exo 19:17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
Exo 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
Exo 19:19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
No wonder men were scared when He came down on the mountain in the wilderness--
Exo 19:16 And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.
Exo 19:17 And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
Exo 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
Exo 19:19 And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.
Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
Heb 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
Heb 12:21 And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
Heb 12:26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
LA
GOD doesn't 'get bigger'. He is infinite being.
The verses which you cite pertain to GOD's immanence within the creation and His condescension to interact with man.
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon
The second resurrection is for all those who are not in the first resurrection, and the book of life is opened at the second resurrection--
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We also find that the persons of the first resurrection are standing with Christ at that time, present at that judgment--
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
LA
As I see it you have written a pretty good post here.
Obviously, if my name had not been written in the book of life, and as I was told while participating in this event, I would not be here today.
Even after I returned to walk with the Lord (5 years after the accident) it took me a couple of years to understand the blessing and the advantage I was given from dying and attending the resurrection of the dead before being sent back.
The reason why it took a couple of years to fully understand it was because at the beginning I allowed some of the teachings of man comparable to what Apple 7 is trying to teach here, to interfere with the truth written within the Word of God. Fortunately our Father in heaven was patient with me while He taught me the laws for determining the truth, and how to separate the doctrines of man from the teachings of God.
The 1st resurrection needs to be obtained before someone dies, but just because someone has believed in the name of Jesus does not mean the 1st resurrection has been accomplished by them.To simplify the definition of the 1st resurrection being accomplished is to note the difference between being given the power to become a son of God versus becoming a manifested son of God. Or, in other words the difference between being sanctified that is a work in progress versus already being fully sanctified.
The 1st resurrection is not our resurrection per se, but is the resurrection of Jesus Christ in us. Those who will obtain this 1st resurrection have moved way beyond simply being baptized with the Holy Spirit that is the seed of Christ given unto us, and is our hope of glory, should this seed mature into a full grown fruit producing tree of life in us.
The advantage of me learning the truth of the resurrection has led to learning other truths, of which all are contrary to the vast majority of the doctrines taught by the modern-day church that replaced the church of the apostles.
Learning the truth requires escaping the doctrines of man that has caused God to turn his back on the church. That's why we do not see miracles in the church anymore and why I say when the truth returns to the church so will miracles return to the church.
I have some things to get done before I can take the time to read and post again.
Doug
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
The second resurrection is for all those who are not in the first resurrection, and the book of life is opened at the second resurrection--
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
We also find that the persons of the first resurrection are standing with Christ at that time, present at that judgment--
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
LA
That's what we have been discussing.
Douglas feels that he was a participant (not a judge) at the Second Resurrection (i.e. the Second Death)...thus, this can only mean that he was headed for hell...
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple7
That's what we have been discussing.
Douglas feels that he was a participant (not a judge) at the Second Resurrection (i.e. the Second Death)...thus, this can only mean that he was headed for hell...
You need to get your facts straight
According to the Bible the time of hell is already past by the time of the 2nd resurrection that is the beginning of time for the lake of fire.
The problem with all of your doctrines is they are the result of you continuing to leave out verses that destroy your doctrine, therefore, you are only using verses that support what you want the Bible to say while ignoring the rest........ Bad mistake !!!!!!!
You are teaching a form of spiritual abortion and you need to learn how to rightly divide the word that means you must include all verses that have to do with the subject at hand.
You're teaching is a typical repugnant mainline denominational teaching known to flourish in churches where God has not appeared given witness through signs and wonders for many years.
When you wake up to the fact that it is teachings like the ones you have that have caused God to depart the church, you will be on the path towards repentance and restoration.
Since you already have a preview in hand, move unto chapter 2 and learn what you still need to be taught on how to determine the truth according to God instructions, and not mans traditions that are holding you back
For others there a free Google preview button that appears at this link. Once this page opens just click the google priew button and the first 3 1/2 chapters will appear.
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
August 15th, 2012, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelystone
According to the Bible the time of hell is already past by the time of the 2nd resurrection that is the beginning of time for the lake of fire.
Thanks
Doug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple7
Show us scripturally, Douglas...
Why you do not already know these things and/or cannot find them for yourself is beyond me.
Re.20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
I must congratulate you for one thing Apple 7!
You are absolutely the most ignorant person I have ever come across who tries to pass himself off as a trustworthy teacher of the Bible!!!!!!
Doug
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
Why can you cannot find these things yourself is beyond me.
Re.20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
There is no mention that the time of hell has passed, Douglas...these passages merely tell us that hell resides in the Lake of Fire.
Again...if you claimed to receive judgment during this time....well...then you also are going to reside there...
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