Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
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August 13th, 2012, 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2COR12:9
The reason I lean towards no rapture, is because I can't find it biblically after seeing the timeline that I see in Revelation referring to the end, I don't see a rapture anywhere. I understand the sentiment and why the theory was created in the early 19th century, and I can even see where it could be perceived to be speaking of rapture in scripture, especially if you're looking for it. Though as I could not find it in Revelations, I started working through other passages deemed to be rapture passages and saw them differently. I think some refer to the tribulation in 70 ad., and some simply referring to the second coming of Christ, where He doesn't take people anywhere based on the fact He's coming to dwell here for the thousand years till it's finished.
I don't know how to answer you.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
I'm getting tripped up on "This is the first resurrection." But, for that statement, there must be another resurrection. In your view are more than the righteous resurrected?
In the second resurrection yes, all the dead are resurrected. The first is seen as some special privilege they receive by being able to reign with Him on earth for the 1000 years, like I said before, with Satan chained up and Christ reigning, the antichrist is gone as shown in Rev.19, He gets rid of him when He comes down to reign. So they may play a part in some sort of ministry, I like too see it as the last round up for souls before the end, though this is theoretical, but I wonder what other purpose would there be for coming down for a 1000 years before its all finished.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
That's fine, just sharing my opinion. To be honest I only dabble slightly in eschatology, because I kind of hold to the fact I'll know all about when it's going on if I'm still here. So most of my theological and biblical studies are focused on the here and now, helping me to grow and others. Maybe I'll get deeper into eschatology as I get older, when I feel I can devote more time to it. I have enough to feel comfortable about what to expect if I'm around for it. My motto is to just live everyday as if Christ was returning, then I'll always be trying to be ready. Though it has been fun looking into it again.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Last edited by 2COR12:9; August 13th, 2012 at 10:30 PM.
There are two resurrections. the first is when Christ returnes to get his saints. He does not even touch earth, they meet him in the air.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jesus is taken these saints to heaven where they will help to judge the world. Everyone of earth have been killed. Satan is loosed on a desolate earth for 1000 years with no one to tempt. After 1000 years Christ returnes again with the saints and a new city.
The second resurection takes place and God destroys them.
Please don't hold me word for word as most of this is from studies I did many years ago. I wouild be glad to look anything up if it may help you. Keep in mind that most all prophecy is only an educated guess. This is one of many theories about the second coming of Christ.
Peace my friend
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 14th, 2012, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2COR12:9
In the second resurrection yes, all the dead are resurrected. The first is seen as some special privilege they receive by being able to reign with Him on earth for the 1000 years, like I said before, with Satan chained up and Christ reigning, the antichrist is gone as shown in Rev.19, He gets rid of him when He comes down to reign. So they may play a part in some sort of ministry, I like too see it as the last round up for souls before the end, though this is theoretical, but I wonder what other purpose would there be for coming down for a 1000 years before its all finished.
I have that the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected. The way I have said it, which may be incorrect, is that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked. That implies it is the same resurrection. If the wicked are raised at the second resurrection, will there be some righteous raised there/then too? Because, I don't know if the resurrection of the righteous and the first resurrection are the same (same time, same event) (and is the second resurrection not the resurrection of the righteous).
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 14th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2COR12:9
That's fine, just sharing my opinion. To be honest I only dabble slightly in eschatology, because I kind of hold to the fact I'll know all about when it's going on if I'm still here. So most of my theological and biblical studies are focused on the here and now, helping me to grow and others. Maybe I'll get deeper into eschatology as I get older, when I feel I can devote more time to it. I have enough to feel comfortable about what to expect if I'm around for it. My motto is to just live everyday as if Christ was returning, then I'll always be trying to be ready. Though it has been fun looking into it again.
Thank you for your help and attempts at helping me. I don't think I'm a lost case, but I don't know enough to approve of everything you say.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 14th, 2012, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr
Let me try. This is my understanding of Rev 20.
There are two resurrections. the first is when Christ returnes to get his saints. He does not even touch earth, they meet him in the air.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Jesus is taken these saints to heaven where they will help to judge the world. Everyone of earth have been killed. Satan is loosed on a desolate earth for 1000 years with no one to tempt. After 1000 years Christ returnes again with the saints and a new city.
The second resurection takes place and God destroys them.
Please don't hold me word for word as most of this is from studies I did many years ago. I wouild be glad to look anything up if it may help you. Keep in mind that most all prophecy is only an educated guess. This is one of many theories about the second coming of Christ.
Peace my friend
Regarding the 1000 years you speak of, it seems that you have Christ after a 1000 year reign of satan. Is what you are saying that Christ is not on the earth during the 1000 years?
My thought was that the scriptures say there will be a 1000 year reign of Christ, and that then satan will be loosed (afterward).
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
The first "Resurrection" is ( Simply Baptism by the Gospel )!! - It cannot be more ( Clear )!!! The Second Resurrection, or the ( Quickening ), or your eyes will be opened to the Truth at Your Death. -- Your death is the stepping forward to Hell in the path you have chosen with the great multitude, which is not the straight and narrow path from "Glory to Glory"; or to say, "from Resurrection to Resurrection"!! ---- If you can't understand that, - well, you thought!!!
Paul -- 081412
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 14th, 2012, 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letsargue
The first "Resurrection" is ( Simply Baptism by the Gospel )!! - It cannot be more ( Clear )!!! The Second Resurrection, or the ( Quickening ), or your eyes will be opened to the Truth at Your Death. -- Your death is the stepping forward to Hell in the path you have chosen with the great multitude, which is not the straight and narrow path from "Glory to Glory"; or to say, "from Resurrection to Resurrection"!! ---- If you can't understand that, - well, you thought!!!
Paul -- 081412
Letsargue,
Do you believe everyone has been baptized at once?
Untellectual
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Do you believe everyone has been baptized at once?
Untellectual
Speaking of the carnal, No, - but of the “Spirit of Baptism” which is the “First Resurrection”, Yes!! --- Ephesians 2:6 KJV – “And ((( hath raised us up together ))), and (( made us sit together )) in ( Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus ). -----//-- You may wish, but you will not find anything to debunk that with!! - That is the “First Resurrection” which is from the Teaching of the Apostle Paul till now, and for ever, or as long as there is day and night.
Paul – 081412
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
August 14th, 2012, 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letsargue
Speaking of the carnal, No, - but of the “Spirit of Baptism” which is the “First Resurrection”, Yes!! --- Ephesians 2:6 KJV – “And ((( hath raised us up together ))), and (( made us sit together )) in ( Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus ). -----//-- You may wish, but you will not find anything to debunk that with!! - That is the “First Resurrection” which is from the Teaching of the Apostle Paul till now, and for ever, or as long as there is day and night.
Paul – 081412
I will rephrase in an attempt to understand you.
Do you believe everyone has already been baptized by the Spirit of God? Meaning, if the baptizm of the Spirit is the beginning of the 1000 year reign of Christ, does that reign start at different times for different people?
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel.
Reputation:
August 14th, 2012, 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letsargue
That was written over two thousand years ago. The whole thing of God is fulfilled, including the Coming of Christ to the “Individual” / “To the Individual” when he is ( Baptized ). -- There are many Scriptures to back that up, but none of them means anything to any of you!!!!!!
Paul – 081212
There are also hundreds of scriptures tied to that event that speak of a very detailed, world wide, physical event. But they don't mean anything to you do they?
"God foreknows nothing by contingency, but that he foresees, purposes, and does all things according to his immutable, eternal and infallible will. By this thunderbolt, "free will" is thrown prostrate and utterly dashed to pieces. Those therefore, who would assert "free will," must either deny this thunderbolt, or pretend not to see it, or push it from them." -Martin Luther
"The Church has surrendered her once lofty concept of God and has substituted for it one so low, so ignoble, as to be utterly unworthy of thinking, worshiping men. This she has not done deliberately, but little by little and without her knowledge; and her very unawareness only makes her situation all the more tragic." -A.W. Tozer
"He that has doctrinal knowledge and speculation only, without affection, never is engaged in the business of religion." -Jonathan Edwards
I have that the righteous and the wicked will be resurrected. The way I have said it, which may be incorrect, is that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and of the wicked. That implies it is the same resurrection. If the wicked are raised at the second resurrection, will there be some righteous raised there/then too? Because, I don't know if the resurrection of the righteous and the first resurrection are the same (same time, same event) (and is the second resurrection not the resurrection of the righteous).
I believe all people who have died wicked and righteous will be raised in that second resurrection, to be judged at the great white throne of judgement shown in Revelation 20:12-13 and spoken of in Revelation 20:5 the part in parenthesis in post #28, except for those in the first resurrection who are not just the righteous, but those who have lived and died in a certain way spoken of in Revelation 20:4 & 6.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Do you believe everyone has already been baptized by the Spirit of God?
There is nothing there that you have right!! - You cannot be answered with such wrong statements!!
I'll answer the first part of your response.
(( There has not been a single Soul Baprized of, or by the Holy Ghost / Spirit in at least a Thousand Years!! - Your world has all gone down the same divided path that you're travelling to nowhere in your world!! ((( The Truth and the Righteousness of ( That Truth ) leads to the "Glory of Heaven")))!! (( "The Glory of Heaven" )) is the ( Resurrected New Heaven ) by the Christ who is the "Resurrection" ( of all that is "New" )!! You cannot remove anything ( New ) from the "Resurrection", which is The Christ!!! - Read the Book!!
Paul -- 081512
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
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