ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
The evidence is all over the Bible of a literal flat earth. Pillars of the earth, corners of the earth, windows of heaven, floodgates of heaven.
The greeks eventually did figure out the earth is a sphere. The word sphere is never found in scripture with reference to the shape of the earth.
True. However, this word, "Ball", is.
"He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house." Isaiah 22:18 (KJV) __And it is even "tossed" as a ball usually is.
Note: Isaiah was written about 700 yrs BC. I believe we safely assume that a ball later came to known as a "sphere". Can we be honest and say that is possible? With that admission, can we not also safely assume that folk, when observing the heavens, thought of the objects they saw to be as "balls" and not discs__ especially as the seasons changed that affected their own crops by the sun setting lower or higher in the sky? And not to be left out, the clock__the sun dial?
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 06:56 AM
Quote:
True. However, this word, "Ball", is.
"He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house." Isaiah 22:18 (KJV) __And it is even "tossed" as a ball usually is.
Just not in comparison to the Earth. However, by 250 B.C. the Greeks not only knew the Earth was a sphere, they had accurately measured it's circumference.
So it wouldn't be remarkable if an educated Israelite had heard of it. But we have no evidence of that in Scripture.
Quote:
Note: Isaiah was written about 700 yrs BC. I believe we safely assume that a ball later came to known as a "sphere". Can we be honest and say that is possible? With that admission, can we not also safely assume that folk, when observing the heavens, thought of the objects they saw to be as "balls" and not discs__ especially as the seasons changed that affected their own crops by the sun setting lower or higher in the sky? And not to be left out, the clock__the sun dial?
Nope. The Egyptians, in spite of evidence showing that they thought the Earth was a sphere, thought the sun was a disk.
Just not in comparison to the Earth. However, by 250 B.C. the Greeks not only knew the Earth was a sphere, they had accurately measured it's circumference.
So it wouldn't be remarkable if an educated Israelite had heard of it. But we have no evidence of that in Scripture.
Nope. The Egyptians, in spite of evidence showing that they thought the Earth was a sphere, thought the sun was a disk.
So that's out.
Not hardly as to all I posited. Don't pick and choose for advantage. If you really just want to win this "argument" regardless of truth, just say so. I'll not chase your rabbits.
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 07:32 AM
Barbarian observes:
Just not in comparison to the Earth. However, by 250 B.C. the Greeks not only knew the Earth was a sphere, they had accurately measured it's circumference.
So it wouldn't be remarkable if an educated Israelite had heard of it. But we have no evidence of that in Scripture.
The Egyptians, in spite of evidence showing that they thought the Earth was a sphere, thought the sun was a disk.
So that's out.
Quote:
Not hardly as to all I posited.
Evidence matters.
Quote:
Don't pick and choose for advantage. If you really just want to win this "argument" regardless of truth, just say so.
That would be something like arguing that because the Hebrews knew about balls, it proves they thought the Earth is a ball.
Slogan/motto:
Learn to do right; seek justice.
Defend the oppressed.
Take up the cause of the fatherless;
Isaiah 1:17
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe
How do pillars make the Earth flat?
How does a sphere need pillars or foundations?
Quote:
How do windows of heaven make Earth flat?
How do floodgates of heaven make Earth flat?
They make the sky a hard dome over a flat earth. You know, a firmament. The one you think is the earth's crust.
Quote:
There's no reason to think the Greeks were first, nor that any thinking society would believe the Earth was flat.
Except we know that lots of societies did. The Chinese believed the earth was flat until the arrival of Europeans. The polynesians also believed in a flat earth. A spherical earth is non-obvious.
But we've been over this. I can't convince you even with evidence. You just keep asserting that people could "figure it out" even though all the evidence is to the contrary. But that's your M.O. evidence has no meaning to you.
“We do not believe in God because we need to explain this or that feature of the world. That is what science is for. We believe in God because we see something deeper in the world, something that transcends the scientific explanations.” - Karl Giberson Ph.D.
Except we know that lots of societies did. The Chinese believed the earth was flat until the arrival of Europeans. The polynesians also believed in a flat earth. A spherical earth is non-obvious.
Yes, and the Romans thought their god lived on a mountain, the Egyptians thought the sun was theirs and you think fish turned into people.
Like I say, any society that wishes to think clearly on the matter need not more than a little effort to figure out the Earth is round.
Quote:
But we've been over this. I can't convince you even with evidence.
I see. So you're not going to even try?
And you don't have any evidence against what I say. What I say is based on an understanding of human nature and its capacity for thought. Positive arguments from your side are non-existent.
Quote:
You just keep asserting that people could "figure it out" even though all the evidence is to the contrary. But that's your M.O. evidence has no meaning to you.
People can figure it out. That's my evidence. We know of numerous methods, perfectly accessible with simple materials, to provide direct evidence that the Earth is round. There is zero reason to believe that there were any societies without the means to determine the Earth was round.
That some did (and need I remind you, there are still flat-earthers today) is not evidence that everyone, everywhere did.
The bible says very little about the overall shape of the Earth. Your insistence that it teaches a flat Earth is laughable.
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 09:18 AM
Alate_One writes:
They make the sky a hard dome over a flat earth.
Stipe objects:
Quote:
And you read this, where?
Certainly not the bible.
Strong's Concordance:
raqia: an extended surface, expanse
Original Word: רָקִ֫יעַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: raqia
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-kee'-ah)
Short Definition: expanse
the vault of heaven, or 'firmament,' regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting 'waters' above it, Genesis 1:6,7 (3 t. in verse); Genesis 1:8 (called שָׁמַיַם; all P), Psalm 19:2 ("" הַשָּׁמַיַם), ׳זֹהַר הָר Daniel 12:3; also ׳ר הַשָּׁמִיִם Genesis 1:14,15,17, ׳הַשּׁ ׳עַלמְּֿנֵי ר Genesis 1:20 (all P). **רְקִיעַ עֻזּוֺ Psalm 150:1 (suffix reference to ׳י).
Slogan/motto:
Try to be civil in the face of incivility. This is a test.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Barbarian
Alate_One writes:
They make the sky a hard dome over a flat earth.
Stipe objects:
Strong's Concordance:
raqia: an extended surface, expanse
Original Word: רָקִ֫יעַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: raqia
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-kee'-ah)
Short Definition: expanse
the vault of heaven, or 'firmament,' regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting 'waters' above it, Genesis 1:6,7 (3 t. in verse); Genesis 1:8 (called שָׁמַיַם; all P), Psalm 19:2 ("" הַשָּׁמַיַם), ׳זֹהַר הָר Daniel 12:3; also ׳ר הַשָּׁמִיִם Genesis 1:14,15,17, ׳הַשּׁ ׳עַלמְּֿנֵי ר Genesis 1:20 (all P). **רְקִיעַ עֻזּוֺ Psalm 150:1 (suffix reference to ׳י).
Surprise
When I "thought as a child" the ground upon which I stood was flat and beautiful endless sky overhead did indeed seem to be a giant dome.
How comforting the simple faith of childhood. Then, we grow up and must "put off childish ways"....
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Alate_One writes:
They make the sky a hard dome over a flat earth.
Stipe objects:
Quote:
And you read this, where?
Certainly not the bible.
Strong's Concordance:
raqia: an extended surface, expanse
Original Word: רָקִ֫יעַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: raqia
Phonetic Spelling: (raw-kee'-ah)
Short Definition: expanse
the vault of heaven, or 'firmament,' regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting 'waters' above it, Genesis 1:6,7 (3 t. in verse); Genesis 1:8 (called שָׁמַיַם; all P), Psalm 19:2 ("" הַשָּׁמַיַם), ׳זֹהַר הָר Daniel 12:3; also ׳ר הַשָּׁמִיִם Genesis 1:14,15,17, ׳הַשּׁ ׳עַלמְּֿנֵי ר Genesis 1:20 (all P). **רְקִיעַ עֻזּוֺ Psalm 150:1 (suffix reference to ׳י).
In the animal kingdom, I would like to know where species ever "evolved" from something it was to something different than what it was? Where's the evidence? Things don't biologically do so. They can't.
Slogan/motto:
Never be haughty to the humble; never be humble to the haughty.
Reputation:
September 16th, 2012, 11:36 AM
According to YE creationists, it happened a lot. Supposedly, all the species today evolved by hyperevolution in a few thousand years after the flood.
However, speciation today seems to be a rather slow process, involving gradual change over time, with the evolution of new genera or families requiring tens of thousands to millions of years.
According to YE creationists, it happened a lot. Supposedly, all the species today evolved by hyperevolution in a few thousand years after the flood.
However, speciation today seems to be a rather slow process, involving gradual change over time, with the evolution of new genera or families requiring tens of thousands to millions of years.
Want some examples?
Seems to be, Maybe, Well sortta. Uh, huh..real slow.
Linear Mode
