Open View TheologyThe Open View teaches that God can change the future. He interacts with the flow of history and changes the outcome of the future as it unfolds by His decisions and actions.
This forum is dedicated to the discussion of openness theology.
Kosmos also refers to the earth and the things in the earth
Right, not the "age" or "ages" (i.e. a period of time). The Lamb was foreordained from the foundation of the kosmos, not from the foundation of the age.
Slogan/motto:
Love is the greatest force the world will ever know, but love is not forceful
Reputation:
October 3rd, 2012, 10:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surrender
Right, not the "age" or "ages" (i.e. a period of time). The Lamb was foreordained from the foundation of the kosmos, not from the foundation of the age.
Right, but I am talking about the new heaven and earth when I am refering to the new world. Jesus Christ's death and reserection is the foundation all that is new.
Right, but I am talking about the new heaven and earth when I am refering to the new world. Jesus Christ's death and reserection is the foundation all that is new.
The new heaven and new earth John saw in Rev. 21 was something that was to be inherited in John's future (Rev. 21:7). The new heaven and new earth had not yet materialized.
Slogan/motto:
Love is the greatest force the world will ever know, but love is not forceful
Reputation:
October 4th, 2012, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pneuma
I think you missed my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surrender
Would care to explain your point?
This is my point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pneuma
Right, but I am talking about the new heaven and earth when I am refering to the new world. Jesus Christ's death and reserection is the foundation all that is new.
Slogan/motto:
Love is the greatest force the world will ever know, but love is not forceful
Reputation:
October 4th, 2012, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surrender
The new heaven and new earth John saw in Rev. 21 was something that was to be inherited in John's future (Rev. 21:7). The new heaven and new earth had not yet materialized.
Oh! Well, I agree that the “foundation” of the new heaven and new earth had been laid. It could even be argued that this restoration or “making things new” began with the ministry of Jesus as he cast out demons, healed all who were sick and lame, and freed all the oppressed who came to him in faith and humility. But listen, Jesus says the Father loved him before the foundation of the world (John 17:24). He could not have been talking about the foundation of the new heaven and new earth. It was from this foundation spoken of in John 17:24 that the Lamb was foreordained (1 Peter 1:20). But none of this means that the future is entirely fixed or foreknown.
Slogan/motto:
Love is the greatest force the world will ever know, but love is not forceful
Reputation:
October 5th, 2012, 07:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by surrender
Oh! Well, I agree that the “foundation” of the new heaven and new earth had been laid. It could even be argued that this restoration or “making things new” began with the ministry of Jesus as he cast out demons, healed all who were sick and lame, and freed all the oppressed who came to him in faith and humility. But listen, Jesus says the Father loved him before the foundation of the world (John 17:24). He could not have been talking about the foundation of the new heaven and new earth. It was from this foundation spoken of in John 17:24 that the Lamb was foreordained (1 Peter 1:20). But none of this means that the future is entirely fixed or foreknown.
Why could not that Father love Jesus before the foundation of the new? It makes perfect sense to me.
A question you have to ask yourself is why if Christ was slain before the foundation of the old world did He have to be slain again 2000 years ago?
Does not the scripture say that it was while we were yet sinner Christ died for us? If He was slain before the foundation of the old world would that not mean He died for us before we were sinners?
Why could not that Father love Jesus before the foundation of the new? It makes perfect sense to me.
If the Father loved Jesus before the foundation of the “old” world (John 17:24), the Father loved Jesus before the foundation of the new. There is nothing in Scripture that would make us believe that Peter is talking about the “new” earth in 1 Peter 1:20 other than wanting it to fit in with our doctrine. The Lamb was foreordained from the foundation of the “old” earth.
Quote:
A question you have to ask yourself is why if Christ was slain before the foundation of the old world did He have to be slain again 2000 years ago?
What makes you think Christ was literally slain before the foundation of the world?
Besides, you could ask yourself the same question in relation to the “new” earth. If Christ was slain before the foundation of the “new” earth, why did he have to be slain again?
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Does not the scripture say that it was while we were yet sinner Christ died for us? If He was slain before the foundation of the old world would that not mean He died for us before we were sinners?
He died before you were born. So, yes, he died before you were a sinner.
Slogan/motto:
Love is the greatest force the world will ever know, but love is not forceful
Reputation:
October 7th, 2012, 07:59 AM
Quote:
If the Father loved Jesus before the foundation of the “old” world (John 17:24), the Father loved Jesus before the foundation of the new. There is nothing in Scripture that would make us believe that Peter is talking about the “new” earth in 1 Peter 1:20 other than wanting it to fit in with our doctrine. The Lamb was foreordained from the foundation of the “old” earth.
LOL I could say the same thing about what you believe. It is hard to break down the traditions of men.
If the lamb was foreordained before the foundation of the old earth why did God first send so many prophets to get the people to repent? Did He just want to see them die?
Why did Jesus say that God thought they would reverence Him/Jesus if God foreordained Jesus to be slain from the foundation of the old earth?
Surely if God foreordained Jesus death from the foundation of the old earth He would not have thought they would reverence Jesus, He would have known that they would not reverence Him.
LOL I could say the same thing about what you believe. It is hard to break down the traditions of men.
No, you can’t say the same thing, because there is a precedence set in Scripture with the definition I adhere to. Christ Jesus tells us what “foundation of the world” means in John 17:24. When we get to 1 Peter 1:20, we can turn to Jesus to know what Peter means by “foundation of the world.” On the other hand, we never see “new earth” without also seeing “new heavens” along beside it. So, if Peter meant “new earth” he would have included “new heavens” as well.
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If the lamb was foreordained before the foundation of the old earth why did God first send so many prophets to get the people to repent? Did He just want to see them die?
I don’t understand the question.
Quote:
Why did Jesus say that God thought they would reverence Him/Jesus if God foreordained Jesus to be slain from the foundation of the old earth?
Surely if God foreordained Jesus death from the foundation of the old earth He would not have thought they would reverence Jesus, He would have known that they would not reverence Him.
Why is that? His sacrifice was foreordained, not his brutal execution.
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
How do open theists explain that Christ was slain before the foundation of the world?
This would mean He already had a plan of salvation, which infers that He knew already that man would sin.
If He knew already that man would sin, would that not in itself show that God indeed has foreknowledge and can see and as such plan and work those things for His Glory?
If He didn't already know that man would sin, yet made a plan of salvation - would that not infer that He made us sin?
I do believe that God knew that it was likely man would sin and had a plan in place for that eventuality.
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"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
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And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
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