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Delmar Delmar is online now
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December 2nd, 2012, 10:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Granite View Post
Actually I'm happy, young, and handsome, which is more than others here can say for themselves. Try again.
I have no doubt you will stick to that story.









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December 2nd, 2012, 11:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
I have no doubt you will stick to that story.


That some folks can't understand happiness tells me more about them than what I see in the mirror. Sad state of affairs, Del.





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December 2nd, 2012, 02:56 PM

The costs involved, especially if Mr. Enyart does not prevail, should give one pause. One of the accused in the claim owns a home with a market value exceeding half a million dollars. A judgment against Enyart, et al could place one's way of life at risk. Settlement out of court would seem the more prudent course.

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December 2nd, 2012, 06:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
The costs involved, especially if Mr. Enyart does not prevail, should give one pause. One of the accused in the claim owns a home with a market value exceeding half a million dollars. A judgment against Enyart, et al could place one's way of life at risk. Settlement out of court would seem the more prudent course.

AMR
I won't presume to tell Bob whether he should or should not settle nor do I have any idea if he will end up doing so. I do know they put up another show on Friday!









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December 2nd, 2012, 07:56 PM

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Originally Posted by Delmar View Post
I won't presume to tell Bob whether he should or should not settle nor do I have any idea if he will end up doing so. I do know they put up another show on Friday!
It is definitely a difficult call. I think if he rides the controversey just long enough to still allow a settlement, and then takes a settlement, then he will have maximized the publicity that can be gained without too much of a risk. But there is also the issue that possibly standing strong in his beliefs until the brutal end might do more for long term credibility. Either way he has definitely made his point with me, though I have always been one that has no problem with the right to free speech that Bob is championing here. Though I am still against letting the YEC model be taught in science classes as anywhere near a more supported model based on empirical evidence, this still does not mean that an old earth single common ancestry model is definitely the way it happened. I think that Enyart has some pretty good arguments that need to be further researched. And the only way to do that is to get them out there in the public eye. This seems to be the foremost priority in his efforts to date. I think he needs to continue in that as the highest priority.

My peronal opinion is that "Science Fridays" should set up another program with which to debate Bob on his alternative views. My problem with the secular side is that they want to eliminate all opposition to the current consensus in all arenas other than the current peer reviewed models. How about a show where Enyart's model has been peer reviewed and those opinions are noted for all to see.

I guess what I would really like to see is a YEC model being peer reviewed with all the basic assumptions that are the foundation of the model being put on the table. The YEC model obviously starts with a literal interpretation of Genesis as a foundational assumption for any further research program. Philosophically I don't see that as a problem for science as long as it is admitted honestly on square one.



   
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December 3rd, 2012, 07:30 AM

Why should SF deign to debate Enyart? Humoring creationists gives them credibility they don't deserve. We don't take on flat earthers, do we?





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December 3rd, 2012, 07:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Granite View Post
Why should SF deign to debate Enyart? Humoring creationists gives them credibility they don't deserve. We don't take on flat earthers, do we?
It is a different level of impossibility. A flat earth is a logical impossibility given all the evidence and mathematical logic we have to support the spherical model. YEC is only seen as a historical impossibility based on the fossil record, geological strata, and isotope dating from mainstream science. These are the exact issues that YECs are disputing and they do not share the same level of certainty that sailing/flying around the globe can bring.



   
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December 3rd, 2012, 07:54 AM

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It is a different level of impossibility. A flat earth is a logical impossibility given all the evidence and mathematical logic we have to support the spherical model. YEC is only seen as a historical impossibility based on the fossil record, geological strata, and isotope dating from mainstream science. These are the exact issues that YECs are disputing and they do not share the same level of certainty that sailing/flying around the globe can bring.
It was an example of something ridiculous and beyond dispute, that's all. One way or another, we shouldn't indulge quackery.





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December 3rd, 2012, 08:10 AM

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It was an example of something ridiculous and beyond dispute, that's all. One way or another, we shouldn't indulge quackery.
But maybe it is best to expose it as quackery, given that it is, rather than brush it under the rug.



   
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December 3rd, 2012, 08:30 AM

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We don't take on flat earthers, do we?
Of course not. Evolutionists don't like to show themselves divided on anything.

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Originally Posted by Granite View Post
It was an example of something beyond dispute, that's all.
Which is why you will never be able to engage rationally. Not that you ever try, coward.





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
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December 3rd, 2012, 09:31 AM

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But maybe it is best to expose it as quackery, given that it is, rather than brush it under the rug.
I'd say that creationism's been thoroughly and repeatedly exposed already. Debating creationists indulges their fantasies and gives them undue respect, attention, and credibility. My take, anyhow.





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December 3rd, 2012, 05:00 PM

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I'd say that creationism's been thoroughly and repeatedly exposed already.
Yes, you would

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Debating creationists indulges their fantasies and gives them undue respect, attention, and credibility. My take, anyhow.









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December 4th, 2012, 07:40 AM

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Yes, you would


I'll put it this way, Delmar: self-styled "scientists" with "doctorates" from diploma mills have no place whatsoever pontificating about science or presenting themselves as experts on anything except egomania.

P.S. Since a lot of you have a tendency to not actually read my posts I'll spell this out: No, I wasn't referring to Enyart.





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December 4th, 2012, 08:09 AM

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I'll put it this way, Delmar: self-styled "scientists" with "doctorates" from diploma mills have no place whatsoever pontificating about science or presenting themselves as experts on anything except egomania.P.S. Since a lot of you have a tendency to not actually read my posts I'll spell this out: No, I wasn't referring to Enyart.
We know. You were referring to a straw man.





Where is the evidence for a global flood?
Why do my eyes hurt?
You've never used them.

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December 4th, 2012, 11:43 AM

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http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/mo...ado-radio.html

"Several years ago" is vague but I'm betting it was sent not long after "Real" Science Friday launched.
The denverpost.com has a new article which discusses this issue a little bit more in detail and it includes some comments from Bob Enyart and the lawyers from Science Friday
Quote:
Enyart told The Denver Post he received a very polite e-mail from Flatow in 2009 asking him to stop using the name "Real Science Friday."
"We didn't want to provoke an argument, so we didn't respond," Enyart said.
under the comments section Enyart left this as a response to an user.
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OtOH, perhaps you can consider my response to your claim here. Sometimes we tend to reply immediately without first thinking things through. It's great when people are willing to think about a disagreement from another person's perspective.

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Originally Posted by On the Other Hand wrote
"Piggybacking onto someone else's ideas, taking advantage of their hard work and creativity, is theft. Someone else worked very hard to originate the Science Friday show and its name, and to promote it so that it became successful, and then along you came- in 2006- to neatly graft their name brand to your own show just as if you'd christened your new hamburger "The Real Big Mac."
OtOH, if they had named it the Big Burger instead of Big Mac, then (I think you would agree, wouldn't you?) that the government would be wrong to give them ownership of those two words.

When you claim that I'm taking advantage of their "creativity" in that they created the "Science Friday... name", I think you can see the weakness in your own claim. If their name was creative, it would be rightly defensible. Airing music on Mondays and calling it Music Monday is not creative. If Google had called themselves "Internet Search" that would be neither creative, nor a valid name to gain ownership of. But calling it "Google" is creative and properly defensible. You might disagree OtOh, with this assessment, but perhaps you can reconsider being judgmental about our motives.

So, as our attorneys see it (and various civil liberties firms that have freely given us a lot of their time and counsel), the principle in trademark law that SciFri runs afoul of is that their name is descriptive. That's why the SciFi channel (not SciFri, but SciFi) recently re-branded itself to SyFy. With that name change the science fiction network can now rightly benefit from trademark protection, because SciFi was too descriptive of what they do, whereas PsyPhy would be another defensible name, but not SciFi, not Twofer Tuesday, not Theology Thursday, not Music Monday, and not Science Friday. (And that suggests another resolution to this dispute. Ira could change his name to PsyFry, or ScienceFriction, or whatever would be non-descriptive to the activity of talking about science of Fridays, and then he could own a trademark that he could feel good about

Quote:
Originally Posted by On the Other Hand wrote
Well, as I noted before, certainly you would not object to any of us creating "The Real Bob Enyart Show" on the radio or starting up "The Real Denver Bible Church" down the street from you?
OtOH, you don't know that you bring up a lot of history with this question. When our parent church planted our DBC in January 2000, none of us had any idea that there was another DBC in operation for some years. We didn't know that they existed because even though we searched for the name, it did not appear, not with the Secretary of State, nor online, nor in the phone book. A year later that church came to us and told us that they were discouraged because they realized that they had made no effort to protect their name. So, what would we do? Of course, we told that church (although it obviously requires some significant effort), that we would immediately give them their name. They had admitted to us that they didn't have a "legal" right to the name, because they had made no effort to publicize or protect it. But that didn't matter to us. Brotherly love matters more than "legality". And even though we gave them the name DBC and changed our name (to Damascus Road Bible Church), as things would have it, more than a year later we were able to get the name again.



   
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