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December 1st, 2012, 01:53 PM

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Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
I was never searching for utopia but, I am looking to not be lorded over by the state I live in. I have not decided where I will land when I retire but, if I can transfer to Florida sometime in the future I will. Florida is not perfect either but, definitely not as draconian as California. You see it is not the weather that I am interested in as much as my personal freedoms being trampled upon. If it were just the weather I would stay here because California has the best but, the weather alone is not compelling enough. I have to disagree with you that I would face the same problems everywhere else, there are degrees of these problems, yes but, you are really fooling yourself if you think other states operate like California. If this were so than you would have never seen people and business leave California in the first place. The fact remains that they both left because there are better aternatives, no?
I do understand your frustration. There are a lot of reasons for Californians to be concerned; I can't argue that. I also know that California has paved the way in negatives as well as positives, and one of those negatives is the burden placed on business operations here via regulations that are just nuts...for instance the candy vendor salesman who was forced to replace a certain percentage of the candy with "healthier alternatives" even though people weren't buying them and they were just sitting in the machines taking up space. That sort of craziness, so hard on small businesses in particular.

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The state was quite healthy during both of these individuals time. I came here in 1980 when California was bustling with industry especially areospace, and high tech jobs, this is almost all gone now. Though there are still traces of these business' the major portion of that work and technical capital has left the state sadly. Taxation, over-regulation, environmental laws gone extreme have ruined this state for being the hub of industry that it once was.
There's still a lot of technology here, aerospace here. I have family working in aerospace actually. So don't bury us prematurely, we're not dead yet. But yes, there's a lot to worry about - and I'm really wondering what will happen with the supermajority.



   
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December 1st, 2012, 06:06 PM

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Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
There's still a lot of technology here, aerospace here. I have family working in aerospace actually. So don't bury us prematurely, we're not dead yet. But yes, there's a lot to worry about - and I'm really wondering what will happen with the supermajority.
Aerospace was almost the first to leave, not in total I agree, after all I also work in the business. Ask your family members if they remember what aerospace was like in L.A, Orange county, or the Bay area up until about 2000. They have all left, sold their properties and moved to more business friendly states. Now, as I stated before remnants of these companies still are operating but, the major portion of their business has vacated California mainly engineering and manufacturing. This is just the aerospace sector, there are many more high tech jobs & companies that have been lost since 2000 I listed a bunch of them recently in another thread, these are fortune 500 companies that are making the investment to leave rather than investing in growth working in California sadly.





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December 1st, 2012, 07:44 PM

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I will move when I retire that is for sure, they are just not launching rockets from Indiana yet or I would be there now.
Too far north. You want to launch them as close to the equator as possible.

Assuming you want them to go into orbit. You can carry more stuff, or use less energy, if you do that.





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December 2nd, 2012, 11:07 AM

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Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
Too far north. You want to launch them as close to the equator as possible.

Assuming you want them to go into orbit. You can carry more stuff, or use less energy, if you do that.
Really that is not why Barbie, the equator factor is true when you are talking about an equatorial orbit but, we do not launch equatorial in California, we launch polar orbits which could be achieved in Indiana but, it is more about launching over land where people reside. If something goes high order they don't want that over land, that is why all the launch sites launch over the ocean but, a polar launch could plausibly be done just about anywhere.





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December 2nd, 2012, 12:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Saved.One.by.Grace View Post
Study: CA Worst-Governed State in America

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...worst-governed
In the past 6 months, I've moved from #50 on that list to #1. And I can't really dispute the categorization. Still, California is an amazing place, in a way that North Dakota could never really hope to be.





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December 2nd, 2012, 01:03 PM

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Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
I will move when I retire that is for sure, they are just not launching rockets from Indiana yet or I would be there now.
There is a spaceport in Virginia. The Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport (MARS). Also, I love the concept of a "regional" spaceport. You can leave the Earth, but not the country.





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December 2nd, 2012, 03:48 PM

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Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
Aerospace was almost the first to leave, not in total I agree, after all I also work in the business. Ask your family members if they remember what aerospace was like in L.A, Orange county, or the Bay area up until about 2000. They have all left, sold their properties and moved to more business friendly states. Now, as I stated before remnants of these companies still are operating but, the major portion of their business has vacated California mainly engineering and manufacturing. This is just the aerospace sector, there are many more high tech jobs & companies that have been lost since 2000 I listed a bunch of them recently in another thread, these are fortune 500 companies that are making the investment to leave rather than investing in growth working in California sadly.
I'm not going to argue your point, it's good and valid. My relatives are/were lucky.

I did find something interesting while poking around google looking for some stats...

Here's an article from the LA Times from 1991that could have been written today, and it crosses party lines when it comes to governorship. Pete Wilson was governor from 1991–1999, prior to him Deukmejian, also an R. Before him, Jerry Brown (D) and maybe that's where can be found the incubation stage for where we're at today.
Unlike past aerospace downturns, this one threatens to put a permanent dent in the Southland's aerospace sector, which has been an integral part of the state's economic growth for decades and an important entry point to the middle class for Californians since World War II.
Southern California remains the nation's leading aerospace center, but such factors as labor costs, environmental compliance and cost of living in the region are increasingly viewed by aerospace executives as a nearly fatal detriment to their business and competitive position.


The motivations vary dramatically each time a firm moves out. But well-documented problems with high wages, factory land costs, taxes, environmental compliance expenses, union work rules and an inability to recruit new workers to Southern California are the disadvantages most often cited. Defense firms also complain about the weak support they receive from California's congressional delegation.


California "ignores the whole damn industry," says Kenneth W. Cannestra, president of Lockheed's Aeronautical Systems Co., which is leaving Burbank for Georgia. "It even goes down to the local level. The only time anybody seemed to notice us is when we got up and left. And even then they didn't really care."

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-03-...ern-california



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 04:08 PM

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Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
I'm not going to argue your point, it's good and valid. My relatives are/were lucky.

I did find something interesting while poking around google looking for some stats...

Here's an article from the LA Times from 1991that could have been written today, and it crosses party lines when it comes to governorship. Pete Wilson was governor from 1991–1999, prior to him Deukmejian, also an R. Before him, Jerry Brown (D) and maybe that's where can be found the incubation stage for where we're at today.
Unlike past aerospace downturns, this one threatens to put a permanent dent in the Southland's aerospace sector, which has been an integral part of the state's economic growth for decades and an important entry point to the middle class for Californians since World War II.
Southern California remains the nation's leading aerospace center, but such factors as labor costs, environmental compliance and cost of living in the region are increasingly viewed by aerospace executives as a nearly fatal detriment to their business and competitive position.


The motivations vary dramatically each time a firm moves out. But well-documented problems with high wages, factory land costs, taxes, environmental compliance expenses, union work rules and an inability to recruit new workers to Southern California are the disadvantages most often cited. Defense firms also complain about the weak support they receive from California's congressional delegation.


California "ignores the whole damn industry," says Kenneth W. Cannestra, president of Lockheed's Aeronautical Systems Co., which is leaving Burbank for Georgia. "It even goes down to the local level. The only time anybody seemed to notice us is when we got up and left. And even then they didn't really care."

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-03-...ern-california
Good stuff anna, that is just Lockheed! I formally worked for Boeing/McDonnell Douglas which was huge in the Huntington Beach area, they built planes, rockets and rocket hardware there for years, it is all but gone except for a couple of test cells that still exist. They picked up and moved all the rocket manufacture to Alabama, the plane work went mostly to the midwest as did most of the workers with it. There was Northrop Grumman in San Pedro...gone. There are so many that have pulled up stakes it is hard to list them all, a huge core industry just up and gone, I am sure they could have dealt with the high wages but, coupled with the ongoing assault of regulation and taxation what were they to do. You do know it cost them probably billions to move out but, knowing they would recoup that on the other end. The workers in the Alabama plant make a good living there and I have thought about moving there after speaking with some of them but, I love working on the launch site doing testing & launch more than a manufacturing environment, I like to see the fire come out the end of that candle, it is quite exciting.





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December 2nd, 2012, 04:14 PM

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Originally Posted by rexlunae View Post
There is a spaceport in Virginia. The Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport (MARS). Also, I love the concept of a "regional" spaceport. You can leave the Earth, but not the country.
Yes, Wallops Island, VA has also been launching for awhile, so has Kodiak, AK





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December 2nd, 2012, 04:24 PM

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Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
Good stuff anna, that is just Lockheed! I formally worked for Boeing/McDonnell Douglas which was huge in the Huntington Beach area, they built planes, rockets and rocket hardware there for years, it is all but gone except for a couple of test cells that still exist. They picked up and moved all the rocket manufacture to Alabama, the plane work went mostly to the midwest as did most of the workers with it. There was Northrop Grumman in San Pedro...gone. There are so many that have pulled up stakes it is hard to list them all, a huge core industry just up and gone, I am sure they could have dealt with the high wages but, coupled with the ongoing assault of regulation and taxation what were they to do. You do know it cost them probably billions to move out but, knowing they would recoup that on the other end. The workers in the Alabama plant make a good living there and I have thought about moving there after speaking with some of them but, I love working on the launch site doing testing & launch more than a manufacturing environment, I like to see the fire come out the end of that candle, it is quite exciting.
You have an awesome job.

You're right on the rest and I have to say you sure make a good point - not that I'm trying here, but you're a formidable person to go up against if I were.

Want to hear a true story?

Back in the 50s, Rohr Corp. in Chula Vista, south of San Diego, sat on a prime piece of real estate on the coastline and from time to time there would be rumbles from the city about wanting that property. To remind the city how important Rohr was to the local economy, one payday Rohr paid out its entire payroll to its thousands of employees in silver dollars.
The city was awash in literally tons of silver dollars paid to merchants, gas stations, everything. The point was made. They're still there, although they were bought out years ago by Goodrich.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 04:46 PM

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Originally Posted by annabenedetti View Post
You have an awesome job.

You're right on the rest and I have to say you sure make a good point - not that I'm trying here, but you're a formidable person to go up against if I were.

Want to hear a true story?

Back in the 50s, Rohr Corp. in Chula Vista, south of San Diego, sat on a prime piece of real estate on the coastline and from time to time there would be rumbles from the city about wanting that property. To remind the city how important Rohr was to the local economy, one payday Rohr paid out its entire payroll to its thousands of employees in silver dollars.
The city was awash in literally tons of silver dollars paid to merchants, gas stations, everything. The point was made. They're still there, although they were bought out years ago by Goodrich.
That was a good trick, it obviously got the desired effect.





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December 2nd, 2012, 07:38 PM

I notice that the "expert" who decided it was the worst-governed state includes the fact that it's on the border with Mexico (and therefore has a lot of poor and uneducated people). North Dakota, on the other hand, has politicians smart enough to locate their state far from Mexico.





God bless us, every one.
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December 3rd, 2012, 01:09 AM

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Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
Yes, Wallops Island, VA has also been launching for awhile, so has Kodiak, AK
I kinda figured you'd know it.





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December 8th, 2012, 11:15 PM

California State Budget Woes

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...-OFF-THE-CLIFF





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Eph 2:9 not from works, so that no one can boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them. [HCSB]

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December 9th, 2012, 10:16 AM

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I absolutely cracked up at this last statement in the article...


As panic spreads that goosing taxes on the rich may have created enough “tax flight” that the California will actually collect less taxes, there was welcome news that a business had committed to opening in the State. Executives of the 99 Cents Only Stores Inc. proclaimed they would be opening a new location in Beverly Hills on formerly posh Rodeo Drive.



I hate to say I told you so but....And now the infinite wisdom of our democratic supermajority is scheming to put the death nail into California by altering prop 13. Next Prediction: If prop 13 is altered you will see more business' leave (maybe even the 99 cents store) and the real estate market crash with very low property sales & more properties in foreclosure.





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