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December 1st, 2012, 08:42 PM

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Originally Posted by Nang View Post
That is my belief. . .

Nang
If the soul ended then it wouldn't matter if a person was an atheist.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 05:29 AM

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Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
do you really believe God would cause eternal suffering to anyone?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
"Cause?" No.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
are you saying God can do nothing about it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
No.
so why doesn't He?





a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 05:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
so why doesn't He?
I agree with her answer. You notice she said that God doesn't "cause" someone to suffer eternally. A person does that to him/herself.
However, I believe the soul will cease to exist if unrepentent.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 05:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bybee View Post
I agree with her answer. You notice she said that God doesn't "cause" someone to suffer eternally. A person does that to him/herself.
However, I believe the soul will cease to exist if unrepentent.
then you don't agree with her
if
you believe the soul will cease to exist





a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 06:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
then you don't agree with her
if
you believe the soul will cease to exist
Chrys, pay attention!
You said "Cause". Of course God doesn't cause our destruction. We cause our own destruction.
I don't agree with her regarding eternal punishment. The attribute of God's love precludes it in my belief.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 07:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
Mark 8:36-37 What do you think it means to lose one's soul?
Man is already lost. He needs to be saved.

"...Christ's parables show us that we must be made new. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. "Who can make the clean out of the unclean? No one! (Job 14:4, NASB)." Our hearts are deceitful and wicked (Jer 17:9). To think otherwise makes God out to be a liar (1 Jn 1:10). It is impossible to defend yourself and defend God at the same time (McGee). "As it is written, "there is none righteous, not even one." (Rom 3:10). The verdict is in: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)." Christ alone is holy..." Full text: I'll take my chances

And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels [Mark 8:34–38].


"The Lord does not reveal His person apart from His work of redemption. After Peter confessed who He was and they truly recognized Him, He immediately told them, “… the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again” (Mark 8:31). And then He gives the passage we have quoted. Here He is not putting down a condition of salvation, but stating the position of those who are saved. This is what He is talking about. “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me.” What kind of a Christian are you today? Are you one who acknowledges Him and serves Him and attempts to glorify Him? My friend, this is all important in these days in which we live." McGee, J. V. (1991). Vol. 36: Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Mark) (electronic ed.) (104–105). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Mk 8:36 — “For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?”

The question is meant as rhetorical—nothing can make up for the loss of one’s soul—and yet how many of us regularly exchange our lives for much less than “the whole world”?" Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Mk 8:36). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.






What's new?
PlastikBuddah [aka Gamera] make-believer. Kmoney [aka Count Iblis] make-believer. Alate_One deceives students in the classroom. Arthur Brain wants answers. Eph 5:11

"Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
Mark 8:36-37

What do you think it means to lose one's soul? What would that be like, and what would cause it to ever happen?

Nang
The parables are the only place I know we can go to for any understanding and those are limited by their very nature.

The word itself is strange being capable of double meaning, yes?
Mark 8:35 translates the word into "life." And translates it "soul" in Mark 8:36, 37

So is He saying (loose paraphrase!) something like spend you life seeking your life here on this earth and you lose it? If so we have the parable of the rich man/fool who built his barns:

Luke 12:16-21

New International Version (NIV)

16 And he told them this parable: “The ground of a certain rich man yielded an abundant harvest. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘This is what I’ll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store my surplus grain. 19 And I’ll say to myself, “You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”’

20 “But God said to him, ‘You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?’

21 “This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves but is not rich toward God.”



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 10:38 AM

Man sees only the outer man and so does not know the state of the soul that abides in sin, God sees in the inner. That is why it is important to go by what He says rather than what we feel is just and right.

God would not say that the wicked are worthy only of eternal punishment if it were not so.

Man's soul is limited to his body in the present age, his evil may be UNlimited in scope but limited in his ability to perform. Hitler wished to destroy the whole Jewish race and in the most wicked way but alone he could not accomplish his desire, he had to form a union of likeminded people to accomplish as much of his evil design as he could.

But all men are under similar restriction.





One lavished upon in the Beloved
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bybee View Post
Chrys, pay attention!
You said "Cause". Of course God doesn't cause our destruction. We cause our own destruction.
I don't agree with her regarding eternal punishment. The attribute of God's love precludes it in my belief.
bybee, pay attention!
we agree
so
stop arguing with me!!!
now
let's see what nang says





a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by serpentdove View Post
Man is already lost. He needs to be saved.

"...Christ's parables show us that we must be made new. We are all sinners in need of a Savior. "Who can make the clean out of the unclean? No one! (Job 14:4, NASB)." Our hearts are deceitful and wicked (Jer 17:9). To think otherwise makes God out to be a liar (1 Jn 1:10). It is impossible to defend yourself and defend God at the same time (McGee). "As it is written, "there is none righteous, not even one." (Rom 3:10). The verdict is in: "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)." Christ alone is holy..." Full text: I'll take my chances

And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel’s, the same shall save it.

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels [Mark 8:34–38].


"The Lord does not reveal His person apart from His work of redemption. After Peter confessed who He was and they truly recognized Him, He immediately told them, “… the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again” (Mark 8:31). And then He gives the passage we have quoted. Here He is not putting down a condition of salvation, but stating the position of those who are saved. This is what He is talking about. “Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me.” What kind of a Christian are you today? Are you one who acknowledges Him and serves Him and attempts to glorify Him? My friend, this is all important in these days in which we live." McGee, J. V. (1991). Vol. 36: Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Mark) (electronic ed.) (104–105). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

"Mk 8:36 — “For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?”

The question is meant as rhetorical—nothing can make up for the loss of one’s soul—and yet how many of us regularly exchange our lives for much less than “the whole world”?" Stanley, C. F. (2005). The Charles F. Stanley life principles Bible: New King James Version (Mk 8:36). Nashville, TN: Nelson Bibles.
Excellent post that puts the lost condition of mankind into its biblical context.




Losing our souls is not a future event, but a past event, that can only be rectified and reversed through God sending His Son to die the deserved death for lost souls and Christ sending His Spirit to regenerate the justified to new spiritual life.

Nang





"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."

“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”


. . . Gordon H. Clark
   
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Nang Nang is offline
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
bybee, pay attention!
we agree
so
stop arguing with me!!!
now
let's see what nang says
The word "lose" can be translated "forfeited."

Adam was given life and means of continuous life, but he forfeited life in order to gain more than was purposed for him by God.

Sky correctly speaks of Adam rebelling against God. Adam rebelled by forfeiting the life given to him at creation. What a horrible act on his part, and he did it knowingly!

Because Adam was federal head of the entire human race, all men since are born physically, but bereft of everlasting life; slaves of Satan; lost souls who will share in Satan's fate (if not for the intervening and saving grace of God) . . . everlasting torment in hellfire.

Who would say Satan does not deserve this fate?

Nang





"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."

“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”


. . . Gordon H. Clark
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrysostom View Post
so why doesn't He?
nang,

please answer this post





a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
...Losing our souls is not a future event, but a past event, that can only be rectified and reversed through God sending His Son to die the deserved death for lost souls and Christ sending His Spirit to regenerate the justified to new spiritual life.
Yes. J. Vernon McGee used the illustration of mud turtles.



See:

Ro 8:28 J. Vernon McGee






What's new?
PlastikBuddah [aka Gamera] make-believer. Kmoney [aka Count Iblis] make-believer. Alate_One deceives students in the classroom. Arthur Brain wants answers. Eph 5:11

"Being a square keeps you from going around in circles." ~ J Vernon McGee Ro 3:23, 5:8, 6:23, 10:9, 10:13.
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
So you hold to the false teaching of annihilation?
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [Gehenna].

Jesus taught annihilation, which is consistent with the prophets' descriptions of the Day of the Lord.

On what basis do you declare it a false teaching?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
That surprises me, you being a Catholic and all . . .
Regardless, poster chrysostom is correct.





So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doormat View Post
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in [Gehenna].

Jesus taught annihilation, which is consistent with the prophets' descriptions of the Day of the Lord.

On what basis do you declare it a false teaching?



Regardless, poster chrysostom is correct.
thanks

not only nang
but
amr also gets very upset when you argue against eternal suffering

you have to wonder why

they seem to want others to suffer eternally for not seeing it their way





a voice crying in the wilderness :chrysost:
   
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