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oldhermit oldhermit is offline
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December 2nd, 2012, 01:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Drake Shelton View Post
I have refuted this here: http://eternalpropositions.wordpress...ty-or-in-time/

Begotten-ness and sonship are synonymous terms. Without eternal generation, there is no eternal son; with no eternal son there is ipso facto no eternal Father. This is exactly why I reject all American churches. You are a teacher in Israel (Gal 6:16) and you do not know these things?
Do not confuse denial with refutation. You did not refute anything in that atricle. You only denied what the text says.

You do not understand the concept behind the word υἱὸς. You are confusing υἱὸς which refers to one who bears the same image with τέκνον meaning offspring. Jesus in NEVER called the τέκνον of God.

Since the Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul relegates the term to a specific point in linniar time, i.e. the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, this has to serve as the starting point for understanding what is ment by the use of the term begotten. You simply are not saying what Paul is saying.




Last edited by oldhermit; December 2nd, 2012 at 02:29 PM..
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 01:38 PM

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Originally Posted by Letsargue View Post
No!! - "In the beginning was the ( "Word" ) and the ( "Word" ) was with (( God )) and the ( "Word" ) was (( God ))"!! - All three "Words" there are one of the Trinity Heads; -- the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost; - those Three are the one (( God )) from the Beginning!! - All three "Words" can be connected into one Word / God very easily!!


Paul -- 120212
All you have to do Paul, is simply diagram the sentance.

Ἐν - perp. - In
ἀρχῇ - noun - beginning
ἦν - verb - was
ὁ - def. article - the
λόγος, - noun/subj. - Word
καὶ - conj. - and
ὁ - def. article - the
λόγος - noun/subj. Word
ἦν - verb - was
πρὸς - prep. - with
τὸν - def. article - the
θεόν - noun/obj. of the prep. - God
καὶ - conj. - and
θεὸς - pred. nom. - God
ἦν - verb - was
ὁ - def. article - the
λόγος - noun/subj. - Word

There cannot be a stronger passage confirming that Jesus is God than John 1:1. Simply diagraming the sentance renders this fact incortavertable. θεὸς is the predicate nomnative that defines the subject - λόγος - Jusus, who in the subject of John's prologue. THE WORD WAS GOD!



   
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Wile E. Coyote Wile E. Coyote is offline
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December 2nd, 2012, 01:56 PM

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Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
Since the Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul relegates the term to a specific point in linniar time, i.e. the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, this has to serve as the starting point for understanding what is ment by the use of the term begotten. You simply are not saying what Paul is saying.
Correct! God said that He "begot" Israel from Egypt at which point He became Israel's father and Israel His son. Deuteronomy 32:18





"The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

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December 2nd, 2012, 02:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
Correct! God said that He "begot" Israel from Egypt at which point He became Israel's father and Israel His son. Deuteronomy 32:18
Excellant point Wile. I'll have to remember that example.



   
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Letsargue Letsargue is offline
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December 2nd, 2012, 02:24 PM

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Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
All you have to do Paul, is simply diagram the sentance.

Ἐν - perp. - In
ἀρχῇ - noun - beginning
ἦν - verb - was
ὁ - def. article - the
λόγος, - noun/subj. - Word
καὶ - conj. - and
ὁ - def. article - the
λόγος - noun/subj. Word
ἦν - verb - was
πρὸς - prep. - with
τὸν - def. article - the
θεόν - noun/obj. of the prep. - God
καὶ - conj. - and
θεὸς - pred. nom. - God
ἦν - verb - was
ὁ - def. article - the
λόγος - noun/subj. - Word

There cannot be a stronger passage confirming that Jesus is God than John 1:1. Simply diagraming the sentance renders this fact incortavertable. θεὸς is the predicate nomnative that defines the subject - λόγος - Jusus, who in the subject of John's prologue. THE WORD WAS GOD!

I didn't say that Jesus wasn't God, I know He was!!!!!! God said that He was!!

Paul -- 120212





---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 02:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Letsargue View Post
I didn't say that Jesus wasn't God, I know He was!!!!!! God said that He was!!

Paul -- 120212
I'm sorry Paul. I misunderstood your point.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 03:03 PM

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Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
I'm sorry Paul. I misunderstood your point.

Thank you, -- Peace!!

Paul -- 120212





---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 03:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Letsargue View Post
Jesus wasn't a "Lone Ranger"!!! -- Jesus was Right!! -- Maybe you have "Attitude" crossed up with the Righteousness of "Hating Evil", or the not able to get along with evil!!! -- That's my proplem!! -- I've been run out, and kicked out of several churches, and you demand me to attend one of them????!!!

Paul -- 120112
You are not helping anyone with this. Instead you are proving my point that those with the most odd and often bizarre views are persons who refuse to covenant membership with the local church militant.

Lone Rangers stand outside the boundaries of Scriptures and should be taken with a careful grain of salt, while prayed for that they see their error in denying themselves a means of grace only possible from church membership.

AMR





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December 2nd, 2012, 05:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Ask Mr. Religion View Post
You are not helping anyone with this. Instead you are proving my point that those with the most odd and often bizarre views are persons who refuse to covenant membership with the local church militant.

Lone Rangers stand outside the boundaries of Scriptures and should be taken with a careful grain of salt, while prayed for that they see their error in denying themselves a means of grace only possible from church membership.

AMR
Well said AMR!





"The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

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December 2nd, 2012, 05:31 PM

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Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
All you have to do is diagram the sentance.
Sir, your deceits have already been addressed. Christ Jesus does not have a son named Christ Jesus.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 05:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Drake Shelton View Post
Sir, your deceits have already been addressed. Christ Jesus does not have a son named Christ Jesus.
It actually should read "in that which is true."

That we may know that which is true. We are in that which is true. In His Son Jesus Christ. HE is the true God and eternal life."

The same pronoun is used in 1:1,

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life





"The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

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December 2nd, 2012, 05:47 PM

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Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
All you have to do is diagram the sentance.
did you go to a catholic school?





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December 2nd, 2012, 05:58 PM

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Originally Posted by oldhermit View Post
Do not confuse denial with refutation.
Do not confuse assertions with arguments. And as always you did not address what I said. I will quote it for you:

"Begotten-ness and sonship are synonymous terms. Without eternal generation, there is no eternal son; with no eternal son there is ipso facto no eternal Father."

Quote:
You did not refute anything in that atricle. You only denied what the text says.
No I didn't. If I believed in Incarnational Sonship I would believe that he was begotten WHEN HE WAS BORN, NOT WHEN HE WAS RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD. Your only reply is to say what, that his sonship began when he was resurrected? This is buffoonery.

Quote:
You do not understand the concept behind the word υἱὸς. You are confusing υἱὸς which refers to one who bears the same image with τέκνον meaning offspring. Jesus in NEVER called the τέκνον of God.
You are conflating adjectives and nouns. Check your lexicon.

Quote:
Since the Holy Spirit through the apostle Paul relegates the term to a specific point in linniar time
Which is exactly what I refuted here: http://eternalpropositions.wordpress...al-generation/

You will only reject this blog upon pain of Arianism.

Quote:
i.e. the resurrection of Jesus from the dead, this has to serve as the starting point for understanding what is ment by the use of the term begotten.
Which means that his Sonship began with his Resurrection:.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 06:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
It actually should read "in that which is true."

That we may know that which is true. We are in that which is true. In His Son Jesus Christ. HE is the true God and eternal life."

The same pronoun is used in 1:1,

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life
LOL! So the he whose son is Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ?



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 06:15 PM

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Originally Posted by Drake Shelton View Post
LOL! So the he whose son is Jesus Christ is Jesus Christ?
You're not listening. Furthermore, you're misconstruing the text. John said that we are in "that" which is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. "That" which we are in is Jesus Christ. Then he says that "He" (Jesus) is the true God and eternal life. So the true God is also the eternal life. The eternal life is Jesus. In chapter one John said that Jesus is the eternal life, 1 John 1:1-3. In all the Johannine writings it is Jesus who is the eternal life. The Father is NEVER called the eternal life in John's writings.

"He (Jesus Christ) is the true God and eternal life" (only Jesus is the eternal ife in John's writings).





"The Bible is very clear, Christians aren't supposed to be busybodies, nor are they supposed to strive with any man who hasn't harmed him (Or someone else, by implication.)" RandPaulfor2016, May 10, 2013

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