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December 2nd, 2012, 10:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
Sky, will you elaborate on the land covenant?
The Promised Land.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 10:19 AM

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Originally Posted by sky. View Post
And here are the covenants.

Edenic
Adamic
Noahic
Abrahamic
Mosaic
Land
Davidic
New

What an awesome puzzle. Now lets put it together.
You know what I see missing from both covenant theology and the dispensations I listed? The prophetic.

So, if nothing else I think we should admit that the prophetic is a dispensation as opposed to a covenant.....agree?

Or, we could say that the prophetic is a dispensation or an administration that extends through all the time of man, be it viewed by covenant or dispensation.





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December 2nd, 2012, 10:21 AM

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Originally Posted by sky. View Post
The Promised Land.
You mean the land they got, then lost, then got back, then lost again, and finally got back with a big fat Muslim temple on it?

Oh yeah......that one.





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December 2nd, 2012, 10:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
You know what I see missing from both covenant theology and the dispensations I listed? The prophetic.

So, if nothing else I think we should admit that the prophetic is a dispensation as opposed to a covenant.....agree?

Or, we could say that the prophetic is a dispensation or an administration that extends through all the time of man, be it viewed by covenant or dispensation.
What is a "prophetic" covenant or dispensation? I don't know as I have heard of that. If I missed it on this thread, sorry.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 10:26 AM

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
You mean the land they got, then lost, then got back, then lost again, and finally got back with a big fat Muslim temple on it?

Oh yeah......that one.
I don't think this is a positive way to continue the study.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 10:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
OK....so back to the topic. I said I was going to study dispensationalism because it made the most sense to me. Dispensationalists don't agree on everything but here's a commonly offered example of 7 dispensations. What do you think about it?

1) The Dispensation of Innocence: Genesis 2:15-3:21

(2) The Dispensation of Conscience: Genesis 3:22-8:14

(3) The Dispensation of Human Government: Genesis 8:15-11:32

(4) The Dispensation of Promise: Genesis 12:1-Exodus 12:37

(5) The Dispensation of Law: Exodus 12:38- Matthew 2:23; 11:10-13; Luke 16:16

(6) The Dispensation of Grace: Matthew 3:1-Revelation 19:10

(7) The Dispensation Of Divine Government - The Millennium: Revelation 19:11-20:15
Paul was sent to the gentiles with a "special" message of hope,
forgiveness, mercy, and eternal life, through, "faith alone! Faith
in Christ alone through His shed blood, and resurrection! Salvation
is offered to ALL those who will place their faith in Christ!! It's God's
grace that saves us, through our faith!! We cannot earn God's Grace
it's a "free gift" (Ephesians 8:9-10) "8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 10:38 AM

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Originally Posted by sky. View Post
I don't think this is a positive way to continue the study.
Good post!!



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 10:46 AM

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Originally Posted by sky. View Post
I don't think this is a positive way to continue the study.
You're right. My apologies.

So, here's what we're saying. A case can be made for both covenant theology and dispensationalism.

Since I'm new to attempting to understand the scriptures in light of dispensationalism....I'm going to do some reading from others who have studied the topic more than me.

That's kindof why I started this thread. To hear from dispensationalists...not to hear from myself.

So, I'll kick back and see if they jump in. If not, oh well.





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December 2nd, 2012, 11:08 AM

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
You're right. My apologies.

So, here's what we're saying. A case can be made for both covenant theology and dispensationalism.

Since I'm new to attempting to understand the scriptures in light of dispensationalism....I'm going to do some reading from others who have studied the topic more than me.

That's kind of why I started this thread. To hear from dispensationalists...not to hear from myself.

So, I'll kick back and see if they jump in. If not, oh well.
No problem. The only thing is that the study of the dispensations doesn't hinge on Paul. All this talk about Paul/the Gentiles/the church is important but to me all of this focus on Paul is a distraction to the entire message of the Bible. Maybe it's some sort of "kingdom theology", I don't know, but I kind of liken all of the focus on Paul to the Catholics who put all of their focus on Peter.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:21 AM

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Originally Posted by sky. View Post
No problem. The only thing is that the study of the dispensations doesn't hinge on Paul. All this talk about Paul/the Gentiles/the church is important but to me all of this focus on Paul is a distraction to the entire message of the Bible. Maybe it's some sort of "kingdom theology", I don't know, but I kind of liken all of the focus on Paul to the Catholics who put all of their focus on Peter.
Pauls writings are "extremely important" in order to
get a clear and precise understanding of how God's
Grace, salvation, mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life,
is offered within the confines of this dispensation!!

We must not "minimize" the writings of Paul, who was
sent to the gentiles (us) to spread God's message!! A
message of forgiveness, mercy, forgiveness, and eternal
life, through His Son!!!!!!



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:21 AM

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Originally Posted by rocketman View Post
The DBR was the start of Grace for sure, I agree.
Wasn't grace available before the cross, as proven by Jesus forgiving people their sins and healing them before the cross?





So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

Last edited by Doormat; December 2nd, 2012 at 12:45 PM..
   
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December 2nd, 2012, 11:37 AM

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Originally Posted by Clete View Post
Why did God need Paul in the first place?
It seems that Paul's education in scripture and his experience persecuting Jewish believers qualified him as a good preacher to non-Jews.

What's your answer?





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December 2nd, 2012, 11:51 AM

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
Well...would you agree that Jesus fulfilled the law...and much of the prophets?
Yes. Would you agree that Jesus fulfilled Daniel 2:44?

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
That the law and prophets were until John?
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
If so, then doesn't that imply a new dispensation...one of grace?

Or would you just view that change as the New Covenant?
A change in covenant is a change in dispensation. Same thing.





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December 2nd, 2012, 12:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Guyver View Post
You're right. My apologies.

So, here's what we're saying. A case can be made for both covenant theology and dispensationalism.

Since I'm new to attempting to understand the scriptures in light of dispensationalism....I'm going to do some reading from others who have studied the topic more than me.

That's kindof why I started this thread. To hear from dispensationalists...not to hear from myself.

So, I'll kick back and see if they jump in. If not, oh well.
You gave an example:
Quote:
1) The Dispensation of Innocence: Genesis 2:15-3:21

(2) The Dispensation of Conscience: Genesis 3:22-8:14

(3) The Dispensation of Human Government: Genesis 8:15-11:32

(4) The Dispensation of Promise: Genesis 12:1-Exodus 12:37

(5) The Dispensation of Law: Exodus 12:38- Matthew 2:23; 11:10-13; Luke 16:16

(6) The Dispensation of Grace: Matthew 3:1-Revelation 19:10

(7) The Dispensation Of Divine Government - The Millennium: Revelation 19:11-20:15
I'll put in my 2 cents although you will find it considerably different from the dispensationalism you probably had in mind. The Church of Jesus Christ is a dispensation church. I believe the dispensations are dispensations of the gospel as well as of time. I believe the seven seals opened in Revelation correspond to the various dispensations of the gospel. The first is the dispensation of Adam - God identifies himself to man, and gives man some basic gospel principles. We are now in the last dispensation. I don't personally believe that all the dispensations are perfectly understood, so I am not going to hazard theories, but certainly Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, and Christ figure in them.



   
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December 2nd, 2012, 12:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Grosnick Marowbe View Post
Paul's writings are "extremely important" in order to
get a clear and precise understanding of how God's
Grace, salvation, mercy, forgiveness, and eternal life,
is offered within the confines of this dispensation!!

We must not "minimize" the writings of Paul, who was
sent to the gentiles (us) to spread God's message!! A
message of forgiveness, mercy, forgiveness, and eternal
life, through His Son!!!!!!
I didn't say "minimize Paul's writings". I am saying understand them in light of ALL or the entire teachings of Scripture. We shouldn't minimize any of Scripture and focusing on one part is a mistake in my opinion. If someone wants to study dispensationalism it is "plural" , dispensations. So are the covenants.



   
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