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not4sure not4sure is offline
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March 1st, 2013, 05:05 PM

Let me try again, Robert.

You said...

Quote:
We who are Christians have no righteousness in this life.
If Christians exhibit the fruit of the Spirit in this life how can you make your statement?



   
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Cruciform Cruciform is offline
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Post March 1st, 2013, 05:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
We who are Christians have no righteousness in this life. Our righteousness is in heaven at the right hand of God, Hebrews 7:26. Your righteousness is going to dissappear in a puff of smoke in the judgment when you stand before God, Matthew 7:21, 22, 23.
That's all very interesting. Your complete failure to offer any substantive disproof whatsoever of the content of Post #67 is noted. My statements, therefore, stand exactly as posted.



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TruthSetsFree TruthSetsFree is offline
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March 4th, 2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
The Christian cross does not have the mangled body of Christ on it like the Catholic cross does.

The reason that Christ is absent from the cross is because we (Christians) believe that he is in heaven at the right hand of God, mediating his righteousness on our behalf, Hebrews 7:26.

.
the crucifixion reminds us humans (who, in case u haven't notice, tend to forget and become ungrateful) of what Jesus went through for us...

If you are not moved to love him by looking at one... there is something amiss





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March 4th, 2013, 04:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree View Post
the crucifixion reminds us humans (who, in case u haven't notice, tend to forget and become ungrateful) of what Jesus went through for us...

If you are not moved to love him by looking at one... there is something amiss

There is something amiss in a religion that focuses on the death of Christ and not the resurrection.

On the day of Pentecost the apostles went into Jerusalem preaching the resurrection of Jesus Christ for salvation, NOT HIS DEATH.



   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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March 4th, 2013, 04:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
That's all very interesting. Your complete failure to offer any substantive disproof whatsoever of the content of Post #67 is noted. My statements, therefore, stand exactly as posted.



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Paul makes it very clear that Christians have no righteousness that will save them, Romans 7.



   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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March 4th, 2013, 04:25 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drstevej View Post
Let me try again, Robert.

You said...



If Christians exhibit the fruit of the Spirit in this life how can you make your statement?
The Christians righteousness is in heaven at the right hand of God.



   
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not4sure not4sure is offline
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March 4th, 2013, 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
The Christians righteousness is in heaven at the right hand of God.
Guess you exhibit no fruit of the Spirit. Sad.



   
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Post March 4th, 2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
Paul makes it very clear that Christians have no righteousness that will save them, Romans 7.
That's correct, we have no righteousness of our own, in and of ourselves. However, by God's grace we can indeed do acts of obedience (works) that please God and for which he promises us eternal life (Rom. 2:6-11). Also, see the OP.



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March 5th, 2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
That's correct, we have no righteousness of our own, in and of ourselves. However, by God's grace we can indeed do acts of obedience (works) that please God and for which he promises us eternal life (Rom. 2:6-11). Also, see the OP.



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I will make it clear that when you use the word "grace" you mean the infused righteousness of Christ. The Bible knows nothing of an infused righteousness. Infused righteousness is another Catholic fable that is not scriptural. Show me one verse about an infused righteousness? If this doctrine were correct the Bible would be full of it. THERE IS NOTHING.

Because you are a sinner your works and obedience are worthless. God does not accept the works and the obedience of sinners. God only accepts the works and the obedience of Jesus Christ.

The only works that God accepts is works that are done out of a heart of thanksgiving and gratitude for what Christ has done in his work of redemption. These works will be judged by God.



   
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Post March 5th, 2013, 01:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
I will make it clear that when you use the word "grace" you mean the infused righteousness of Christ.
GRACE: The free and undeserved gift that God gives us to respond to our vocation to become his children. [Glossary of the Catechism of the Catholic Church]
Quote:
The Bible knows nothing of an infused righteousness.
Categorically refuted here and here.



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Cruciform
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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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March 5th, 2013, 02:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
GRACE: The free and undeserved gift that God gives us to respond to our vocation to become his children. [Glossary of the Catechism of the Catholic Church]
Categorically refuted here and here.



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Cruciform
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You are under the misconception that the Holy Spirit makes one holy.

If anything the Holy Spirit will show you that you are indeed a sinner.

"And the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death," Romans 7:10.

Christians only have the first fruits of the Spirit, Romans 8:23. They have NOT been totally sanctified yet. They are waiting for the redemption of their bodies.

You seem to think that you are fit for heaven. Paul says that you need to be changed because you are still corrupt, 1 Corinthians 15:53.

So much of your doctrine is contrary to the Bible.



   
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Post March 5th, 2013, 02:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
You are under the misconception that the Holy Spirit makes one holy.If anything the Holy Spirit will show you that you are indeed a sinner.B]"And the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death," Romans 7:10.[/B]Christians only have the first fruits of the Spirit, Romans 8:23. They have NOT been totally sanctified yet. They are waiting for the redemption of their bodies.You seem to think that you are fit for heaven. Paul says that you need to be changed because you are still corrupt, 1 Corinthians 15:53.So much of your doctrine is contrary to the Bible.
Already answered (Post #85).



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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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March 5th, 2013, 03:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
Already answered (Post #85).



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Paul says that you are corrupt. He tells you several times that you are corrupt, 1 Corinthians 15:50, 51, 52, 53, 54.

You were born after Adam therefore you are corrupt, Romans 5:19.

If you don't see that you are sick (corrupt) you will never come to the one that can heal you.



   
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Post March 5th, 2013, 07:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
Paul says that you are corrupt. He tells you several times that you are corrupt, 1 Corinthians 15:50, 51, 52, 53, 54.
Yes, in and of ourselves and apart from God's grace, we are utterly corrupt.



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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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March 5th, 2013, 08:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
Yes, in and of ourselves and apart from God's grace, we are utterly corrupt.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
+T+

You have a different meaning for the word "grace."

The biblical word for "grace" means God's undeserved favor towards fallen man.

When you say "grace" you mean the infused righteousness of Christ.

So, what you are really saying is apart from the infused righteousness of Christ you are corrupt. Very deceptive.

That is not what Paul meant in 1 Corinthians 15:52, 53, 54.

Paul said that "We shall be changed." There nothing in those scriptures about your definition of "grace".



   
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