TheologyOnline, religion, politics, forum
Go Back   Theology Online | Christian Forums & More > Politics, Religion, And The Rest > Religion > Exclusively Christian Theology
Reload this Page ECT: Man is unable to choose spiritual life (salvation) on his own
Exclusively Christian Theology This forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  (#31) Old
God's Truth God's Truth is offline
BANNED

 


Reputation:
God's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticed
March 1st, 2013, 05:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
So an unbeliever makes a believer of himself, and God then rewards him with the Holy Spirit?

With what power and virtue does the unbeliever believe, apart from the power and virtue of God?

In fact, if unbelievers can make believers out of themselves, what do we need a Savior and Holy
We need to hear the gospel, the word of God. How can you ask such a question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
We can just justify ourselves, and sanctify ourselves, without any interaction or forgiveness or grace from God at all.

That is nuts . . .
What you said is nuts. Whoever said what you just said?



   
Reply With Quote
  (#32) Old
Nang Nang is offline
TOL Subscriber
 Nang's Avatar

 



Reputation:
Nang is well respected by his peers
Nang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peers
March 1st, 2013, 08:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
We need to hear the gospel, the word of God. How can you ask such a question.
I do not ask, I declare . . . that multitudes of unregenerate persons hear the gospel preached all the time, and do not believe, because they have not first been born again by the Holy Spirit of God.

Unless one has the Spirit of God, he cannot understand the things of the Spirit, or spiritually respond in belief to the gospel of God. I Corinthians 2:11-14





"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."

“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”


. . . Gordon H. Clark
   
Reply With Quote
  (#33) Old
God's Truth God's Truth is offline
BANNED

 


Reputation:
God's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticed
March 1st, 2013, 09:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
I do not ask, I declare . . . that multitudes of unregenerate persons hear the gospel preached all the time, and do not believe, because they have not first been born again by the Holy Spirit of God.

Unless one has the Spirit of God, he cannot understand the things of the Spirit, or spiritually respond in belief to the gospel of God. I Corinthians 2:11-14
Show one scripture where it says God saves unbelievers.

Show it or repent for believing and teaching falseness that goes against the Word of God.



   
Reply With Quote
  (#34) Old
Nang Nang is offline
TOL Subscriber
 Nang's Avatar

 



Reputation:
Nang is well respected by his peers
Nang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peersNang is well respected by his peers
March 1st, 2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
Show one scripture where it says God saves unbelievers.

All the souls saved by Jesus Christ are unbelievers!

That is why they need to be saved . . .





"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."

"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."

“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”


. . . Gordon H. Clark
   
Reply With Quote
  (#35) Old
God's Truth God's Truth is offline
BANNED

 


Reputation:
God's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticed
March 1st, 2013, 09:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang View Post
All the souls saved by Jesus Christ are unbelievers!

That is why they need to be saved . . .
Show the scripture!



   
Reply With Quote
  (#36) Old
God's Truth God's Truth is offline
BANNED

 


Reputation:
God's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticed
March 1st, 2013, 09:27 PM

God saves believers not believers.



   
Reply With Quote
  (#37) Old
genuineoriginal genuineoriginal is offline
TOL Legend
 genuineoriginal's Avatar

 


Reputation:
genuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peers
March 1st, 2013, 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
God saves believers not believers.





Learn to read what is written.
   
Reply With Quote
  (#38) Old
glorydaz glorydaz is offline
Gold level Subscriber
 glorydaz's Avatar

 



Reputation:
glorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peers
glorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peersglorydaz is well respected by his peers
March 1st, 2013, 09:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by john w View Post
That is not your argument, i.e., there is a difference between "no ability to choose, inability to choose," and "inability to satisfy God, i.e. to live free from sin,and is therefore in dire need for something (or someone) to save him, die in his place, etc.!"

You present a false dichotomy.
Exactly right.



   
Reply With Quote
  (#39) Old
beloved57 beloved57 is online now
TOL Subscriber
 beloved57's Avatar

 



Reputation:
beloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scale
March 1st, 2013, 09:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
God saves believers not believers.
Jesus saves sinners who are unbelievers ! There is no difference in saving a sinner or a unbeliever !





"All things turn out according to Divine predestination, "There is no such thing as chance or fortune, nor is there a readier way to gain the fear of God, and to put our whole trust in Him, than to be thoroughly versed in the doctrine of predestination." Philipp Melanchthon
   
Reply With Quote
  (#40) Old
God's Truth God's Truth is offline
BANNED

 


Reputation:
God's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticedGod's Truth has been getting noticed
March 1st, 2013, 09:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
Calvinists say no one can believe without God saving them first and causing them to believe.

God does NOT save unbelievers. God saves those who believe.



   
Reply With Quote
  (#41) Old
genuineoriginal genuineoriginal is offline
TOL Legend
 genuineoriginal's Avatar

 


Reputation:
genuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peersgenuineoriginal is well respected by his peers
March 1st, 2013, 09:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by God's Truth View Post
Calvinists say no one can believe without God saving them first and causing them to believe.

God does NOT save unbelievers. God saves those who believe.
Yes, you are right.
God only saves those that believe and choose to be faithful because of that belief.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Jesus saves sinners who are unbelievers ! There is no difference in saving a sinner or a unbeliever !
God never said He would grant forgiveness to anyone that refused to ask for it.
No unbeliever will be saved. God has His standards, and unbelievers do not meet the cut.





Learn to read what is written.
   
Reply With Quote
  (#42) Old
beloved57 beloved57 is online now
TOL Subscriber
 beloved57's Avatar

 



Reputation:
beloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scalebeloved57 is off the scale
March 2nd, 2013, 04:33 AM

gen

Quote:
God never said He would grant forgiveness to anyone that refused to ask for it.
What scripture says that ?

Quote:
No unbeliever will be saved.
Then no sinner will be saved !





"All things turn out according to Divine predestination, "There is no such thing as chance or fortune, nor is there a readier way to gain the fear of God, and to put our whole trust in Him, than to be thoroughly versed in the doctrine of predestination." Philipp Melanchthon
   
Reply With Quote
  (#43) Old
oatmeal oatmeal is offline
TOL Legend
 oatmeal's Avatar

 



Reputation:
oatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peersoatmeal is well respected by his peers
March 2nd, 2013, 04:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redeemed-777 View Post

Man is unable to choose spiritual life (salvation) on his own
because he is …


-- born with an inherited sin nature … many verses
-- spiritually dead in his sins … Ephesians 2:1-5, Colossians 2:13
-- a captive to the law of sin and death … Romans 8:2
-- a slave to sin, forced to obey evil … John 8:34, Romans 6:17-21, Titus 3:3
-- an enemy of God, hostile to God, opposed to God … Romans 8:7

-- spiritually blind and deaf … Matthew 13:13-15, John 9:39, John 12:39-40, Ephesians 4:18
-- unable to understand the things of God (they are foolishness) … 1 Corinthians 2:14
-- seeing the gospel as utter foolishness … 1 Corinthians 1:18
-- unable to believe the truth of the gospel because it is veiled … 2 Corinthians 4:3

-- blinded by Satan … Acts 26:18, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4
-- controlled (ruled) by Satan … John 12:31, 1 John 5:19, Acts 26:18, 2 Cor 10:4-5, Ephesians 2:2
-- deceived by Satan … Revelation 12:9, John 8:44, 2 Corinthians 11:14
-- a captive of Satan unto death … Hebrews 2:14-15, Luke 4:18

-- unable to be righteous by doing good works … Isaiah 64:6, Galatians 2:16, Titus 3:5
-- unable to be saved by his own desire or works … Romans 9:16, Ephesians 2:8-9
-- able to be saved only by the grace and mercy of God … Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:4-7
-- NOT allowed to choose ... God chooses only whomever He pleases … Romans 9:9-24

Therefore, man is totally at God’s mercy re: whether he/she goes to Heaven or Hell.
Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

The word "if" indicates that it is up to every individual to choose.

If they choose to confess and believe, then they are saved.

oatmeal





"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42

"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5

I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
   
Reply With Quote
  (#44) Old
Redeemed-777 Redeemed-777 is offline
Over 750 post club
 Redeemed-777's Avatar

 


Reputation:
Redeemed-777 will become famous soon enoughRedeemed-777 will become famous soon enoughRedeemed-777 will become famous soon enoughRedeemed-777 will become famous soon enough
March 5th, 2013, 10:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal View Post
Romans 10:9-10
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart
that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

The word "if" indicates that it is up to every individual to choose.
If they choose to confess and believe, then they are saved.
Things might just be a tad bit deeper than that ... Try prevenient grace on for size.

Prevenient grace is a Christian theological concept rooted in Augustinian theology.
It is divine grace that precedes human decision.
It exists prior to, and without reference to, anything humans may have done.
As humans are corrupted by the effects of sin,
prevenient grace allows persons to engage their God-given free will
to choose the salvation offered by God in Jesus Christ, or to reject that salvific offer.

Prevenient grace is like half-way to Calvinism ...

Irresistible Grace (or efficacious grace) is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly
associated with Calvinism, which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually
applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and, in God's timing,
overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to faith in Christ.





"For as many as are being LED by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." Romans 8:14
To gain salvation, a BAC must be willing to co-operate with the Holy Spirit in removing sin.
E.G. No BAC will be saved who has unforgiveness, or ANY unrepented-of habitual sin in his life.
   
Reply With Quote
  (#45) Old
Cross Reference Cross Reference is offline
TOL Legend
 Cross Reference's Avatar

 



Reputation:
Cross Reference is making a name for themselvesCross Reference is making a name for themselvesCross Reference is making a name for themselvesCross Reference is making a name for themselvesCross Reference is making a name for themselvesCross Reference is making a name for themselvesCross Reference is making a name for themselves
March 5th, 2013, 12:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
gen


What scripture says that ?
Where do you want to begin__OT or NT?



   
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
Copyright ©1997-2014 TheologyOnLine



Logos Bible Study Software Up to 15% OFF FOR THEOLOGYONLINE MEMBERS! Study twice, post once.
Logos Bible Software —take your Bible study to the next level.