[Poly]

Originally posted by Whispers
With the greatest respect, Mr Enyart regularly criticizes others himself.

So it's a good thing he reckognizes, acknowledges, and is sorry for the faults he has had in his life. Otherwise it would make him a hypocrite when he criticizes the wickedness in others who are not sorry and therefore need to be exposed.

[Whispers]

Originally posted by Poly
So it's a good thing he reckognizes, acknowledges, and is sorry for the faults he has had in his life. Otherwise it would make him a hypocrite when he criticizes the wickedness in others who are not sorry and therefore need to be exposed.

This is only part of the problem though. Quite often when a person goes through bad trauma or some majorly negative experience, they are often left with a deep sense of compassion for others going through the same. For example, the victim of rape becomes a rape counsellor. The victim of domestic abuse spends her spare time helping others in the same boat. Although this does not always happen, quite often it does. Only by going through an experience can we truly know what another may be feeling when they experience the same. The pastor knows first hand what it is like to be caught in sin. He has sinned and although reformed, he STILL falls short of the glory of God, something we all need to remember. As the Pastor knows what it is like to be caught in sin, he obviously wants to help others that are suffering as well. He wants to do God's work and bring others into a relationship with Jesus. That is to be commended and respected. What I question, is his methodology for trying to bring people to Christ and walk away from sin.

At root we are all children of God. No matter what we have done, God offers us a promise that if we accept the freely offered hand of salvation, then it is ours. For a sinner to get to the stage where he takes the freely offered hand, he may have to go through a complex and possibly a long-winding road, entailing mental stress, deep reflection and hopefully contact with Christians living and allowing God's light to shine through them. He sees the happiness, well being and contentment of Christians and wonders why he does not feel the same. The example set to him, can lead him to or away from truth.

Lets say that one day he switches on his radio and the Pastor's show is on air. He listens to the Pastor holding forth on sinners, homosexuals and all other sorts of things. As he sits there listening to this prominent Christian, he notices an atmosphere of hatred and aggression underlying the words spoken. Many things are criticised and a distinct lack of compassion is shown and displayed during the course of the show. He hears the years of hellfire and brimstone from his church youth again, and switches that radio off. He never listens to that show again.

At some point in the future, just like everyone of us including me, the Pastor will stand before God. Whilst I am sure that he has done many good things in his life, I cannot help but feel that God will not look kindly upon a man who seems to spend a lot of his time knocking others. Just because he has reformed, does not give him the right to attack others. Sitting in chair passing judgement is relatively easy. Getting out in the world and trying to bring the word of Christ to the sinners is a different matter entirely. Remember we are all disciples of and therefore ambassadors of Christ. If you tell people you are a Christian, you have a duty to God to represent him in the right light to others. Just something to think about...

[Crow]

Originally posted by Whispers
This is only part of the problem though. Quite often when a person goes through bad trauma or some majorly negative experience, they are often left with a deep sense of compassion for others going through the same. For example, the victim of rape becomes a rape counsellor. The victim of domestic abuse spends her spare time helping others in the same boat. Although this does not always happen, quite often it does. Only by going through an experience can we truly know what another may be feeling when they experience the same. The pastor knows first hand what it is like to be caught in sin. He has sinned and although reformed, he STILL falls short of the glory of God, something we all need to remember. As the Pastor knows what it is like to be caught in sin, he obviously wants to help others that are suffering as well. He wants to do God's work and bring others into a relationship with Jesus. That is to be commended and respected. What I question, is his methodology for trying to bring people to Christ and walk away from sin.

At root we are all children of God. No matter what we have done, God offers us a promise that if we accept the freely offered hand of salvation, then it is ours. For a sinner to get to the stage where he takes the freely offered hand, he may have to go through a complex and possibly a long-winding road, entailing mental stress, deep reflection and hopefully contact with Christians living and allowing God's light to shine through them. He sees the happiness, well being and contentment of Christians and wonders why he does not feel the same. The example set to him, can lead him to or away from truth.

Lets say that one day he switches on his radio and the Pastor's show is on air. He listens to the Pastor holding forth on sinners, homosexuals and all other sorts of things. As he sits there listening to this prominent Christian, he notices an atmosphere of hatred and aggression underlying the words spoken. Many things are criticised and a distinct lack of compassion is shown and displayed during the course of the show. He hears the years of hellfire and brimstone from his church youth again, and switches that radio off. He never listens to that show again.

At some point in the future, just like everyone of us including me, the Pastor will stand before God. Whilst I am sure that he has done many good things in his life, I cannot help but feel that God will not look kindly upon a man who seems to spend a lot of his time knocking others. Just because he has reformed, does not give him the right to attack others. Sitting in chair passing judgement is relatively easy. Getting out in the world and trying to bring the word of Christ to the sinners is a different matter entirely. Remember we are all disciples of and therefore ambassadors of Christ. If you tell people you are a Christian, you have a duty to God to represent him in the right light to others. Just something to think about...

Whispers, that is just too funny.

I am a Christian because of Bob Enyart. I originally started watching his show primarily for entertainment's sake--I used to get a big kick out of what a jerk Bob Enyart was. He was much more entertaining than a couple of my other favorite comedy shows--Ron Parsley and Benny Hinn.

Bob was really offensive. He mocked and criticized many things that I felt were perfectly OK, like sexual immorality, atheism (I was one at the time) and abortion. Then after the "Bible verse" warning, he'd show you in the Bible where God said how disgusting these things were.

A funny thing happened. I started to realize how disgusting the things I did and believed in were to God, if He existed. How utterly revolting my lifestyle was. I started thinking about how really evil it is to kill an unborn kid. I began to see "victimless" sexual crimes in terms of families destroyed and diseases being spread throughout society. Drugs in terms of babies born addicted, and kids neglected because daddy and mommy are stoned. My views were undergoing a gradual change.

I still didn't believe in God, but I was seeing consistancy in the Bible for the first time. And the Christ Bob Enyart talked about wasn't the puerile effeminate Christ I had learned about in church and Sunday school so many years earlier. I was hearing about a different Christ--one who spoke His mind, who didn't just stand around beaming benignly and saying pleasant things. I hauled out a Bible--yes, I had one lying around--and I started to look at things Bob had pointed out, and he was right. The stuff I had been taught that made me reject Christianity as the domain of the do-gooders and mentally challenged..it wasn't in there.

I kept hearing about "The Plot" on the show. After deliberating for a month, I kicked $50 for the Plot just to see what it was. At this point, the Christian religion wasn't looking as bad to me as it had. Of course, I could never do all the things you're required to do to go to heaven--never swear, never have a good time, and have your butt planted in a pew every Sunday. But Bob made a lot of sense most of the time, so I figured it would be a pretty good read.

I got "The Plot" early one afternoon 4 years ago. I couldn't put it down. Pieces started falling into place. I could see the stupid misconceptions I had explained, and I saw the Christian faith in it's entirety, the interrelation of the different sections of the Bible, the unity, logic in dealing with criminal acts, just a deluge of information. I think I read for about 14 hours straight. Early that morning I accepted Christ as savior. I had never seen Him, but He had been there all along--hidden by layers of man-made religion.

Whispers, if someone hears Bob Enyart and gets offended, then great. They need to be offended. They need to become so offended that they stop doing the revolting thing they're doing or thinking. And I don't know how much you know about Bob Enyart--probably not a lot--he criticizes the way he used to live and points it out to people as evil, and tells the consequences of his actions as an example so that others might avoid the pain he put himself through. He doesn't sugar coat, and he's not a hypocrite.

And as for that poor hypothetical homo listening to the radio that gets so hurt and offended by Bob Enyart blasting him--Good! He needs it! All of the nicey-nice people who tell him that Christ died for him and leave out the other part--that God says homosexuals should be put to death, and that they're vile and disgusting to God--those nice concilliatory Christians are not helping that poor homo change his lifestyle. They are enablers. And they misrepresent God. They are either bait-and-switch salesmen, or so deceived in and of themselves that they simply do not know truth from lie.

I had laughed at the too pure for this world Christians that tried to win me over to their gelded vision of God for years. You can criticize Bob Enyart all you want, but the fact remains--I would not be a Christian if not for his attacks on the stupidity I did and believed.

[Servo]

Great post Crow!

I used to protest with Bob when I lived in Denver, now that was fun!

Bob really is a nice guy. It is funny because most people think he is mean when they see him on TV. In person you see how nice he is.

[Whispers]

QUOTE---Whispers, that is just too funny.

Thank you! =P

QUOTE---Whispers, if someone hears Bob Enyart and gets offended, then great. They need to be offended. They need to become so offended that they stop doing the revolting thing they're doing or thinking.

Causing offence can help sometimes, I agree with you. However, if someone walks away from God because a pastor offended him, than we must question and look deeply into the intention of the act and whether we are actually causing an effect for good. The problem with causing offence is that sometimes you change the way the person offended see you. You get labeled with one negative term or another, and the truth you may have been able to offer him on God's behalf, is disguised. You must remember that each of us is important to God. Should a homosexual be judged if he has not fully understood the word of God? Perhaps if given the chance he may change, as God's grace pours through him. As an ambassador of Christ, you may only be given one chance to print an impression upon a fellow man caught in sin. Perhaps the homosexual is lonely and confused. As disciples of god, I think we should go and sit with this person and treat him with kindness and respect. We must gain his respect so he offers us enough chance to offer him the divine word of Christ. Perhaps then a chink in his armour is opened, and we get through....perhaps not. I just don’t see that repeatedly denouncing homosexuality on a radio show is the way to open a man's heart to Christ.

Please don’t misunderstand me, I fully appreciate that the Pastor helped you to find God. The Pastor's methodology is not without success, I just wonder if there is a better or kinder way? Maybe not, who really knows but God?

QUOTE---And I don't know how much you know about Bob Enyart--probably not a lot--he criticizes the way he used to live and points it out to people as evil, and tells the consequences of his actions as an example so that others might avoid the pain he put himself through. He doesn't sugar coat, and he's not a hypocrite.

Despite the impression I may have offered, I do respect the Good Pastor and share some of his views. He is preaching God's word, and is a defender of truth as he sees it. I do not nned to know tha Pastor, I only need to know God. Know first the kingdom of God. From there, I can work at deciding on the more earthly things and how they relate to that very kingdom.

QUOTE---And as for that poor hypothetical homo listening to the radio that gets so hurt and offended by Bob Enyart blasting him--Good! He needs it!

Tell me please, where did I say that the hypothetical person was Gay? I was alluding to the fact that he was offended by the Pastor's tone and lack of compassion and not his take on homosexuality. The Pastor is not God, merely a reflection. Look not to the Pastor for God, look to God. The Pastor falls short of the glory of God and as such, must be looked upon as a fellow man only, just like you and I. His opinions are only valid when they EXACTLY reflect God's word.

QUOTE---All of the nicey-nice people who tell him that Christ died for him and leave out the other part--that God says homosexuals should be put to death, and that they're vile and disgusting to God

Please can you quote scripture here. I would like to explore this further with you.

QUOTE---those nice concillatory Christians are not helping that poor homo change his lifestyle. They are enablers. And they misrepresent God. They are either bait-and-switch salesmen, or so deceived in and of themselves that they simply do not know truth from lie.

Exactly the same could and regularly does get said about the Pastor and his followers. What would Jesus really think if he sat in on one of the Pastor's shows?

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Shimei
Bob really is a nice guy. It is funny because most people think he is mean when they see him on TV. In person you see how nice he is.

Ssshhhh. You'll ruin his rep.

[Poly]

Originally posted by Crow
Whispers, that is just too funny.

I am a Christian because of Bob Enyart. I originally started watching his show primarily for entertainment's sake--I used to get a big kick out of what a jerk Bob Enyart was. He was much more entertaining than a couple of my other favorite comedy shows--Ron Parsley and Benny Hinn.

Bob was really offensive. He mocked and criticized many things that I felt were perfectly OK, like sexual immorality, atheism (I was one at the time) and abortion. Then after the "Bible verse" warning, he'd show you in the Bible where God said how disgusting these things were.

A funny thing happened. I started to realize how disgusting the things I did and believed in were to God, if He existed. How utterly revolting my lifestyle was. I started thinking about how really evil it is to kill an unborn kid. I began to see "victimless" sexual crimes in terms of families destroyed and diseases being spread throughout society. Drugs in terms of babies born addicted, and kids neglected because daddy and mommy are stoned. My views were undergoing a gradual change.

I still didn't believe in God, but I was seeing consistancy in the Bible for the first time. And the Christ Bob Enyart talked about wasn't the puerile effeminate Christ I had learned about in church and Sunday school so many years earlier. I was hearing about a different Christ--one who spoke His mind, who didn't just stand around beaming benignly and saying pleasant things. I hauled out a Bible--yes, I had one lying around--and I started to look at things Bob had pointed out, and he was right. The things I had been taught that made me reject Christianity as the stuff of the do-gooders and mentally gelded..it wasn't in there.

I kept hearing about "The Plot" on the show. After deliberating for a month, I kicked $50 for Plot just to see what it was. At this point, the Christian religion wasn't looking as bad to me as it had. Of course, I could never do all the things you're required to do to go to heaven--never swear, never have a good time, and have your butt planted in a pew every Sunday. But Bob made a lot of sense most of the time, so I figured it would be a pretty good read.

I got "The Plot" early one afternoon 4 years ago. I couldn't put it down. Pieces started falling into place. I could see the stupid misconceptions I had explained, and I saw the Christian faith in it's entirety, the interrelation of the different sections of the Bible, the unity, logic in dealing with criminal acts, just a deluge of information. I think I read for about 14 hours straight. Early that morning I accepted Christ as savior. I had never seen Him, but He had been there all along--hidden by layers of man-made religion.

Whispers, if someone hears Bob Enyart and gets offended, then great. They need to be offended. They need to become so offended that they stop doing the revolting thing they're doing or thinking. And I don't know how much you know about Bob Enyart--probably not a lot--he criticizes the way he used to live and points it out to people as evil, and tells the consequences of his actions as an example so that others might avoid the pain he put himself through. He doesn't sugar coat, and he's not a hypocrite.

And as for that poor hypothetical homo listening to the radio that gets so hurt and offended by Bob Enyart blasting him--Good! He needs it! All of the nicey-nice people who tell him that Christ died for him and leave out the other part--that God says homosexuals should be put to death, and that they're vile and disgusting to God--those nice concillatory Christians are not helping that poor homo change his lifestyle. They are enablers. And they misrepresent God. They are either bait-and-switch salesmen, or so deceived in and of themselves that they simply do not know truth from lie.

I had laughed at the too pure for this world Christians that tried to win me over to their gelded vision of God for years. You can criticize Bob Enyart all you want, but the fact remains--I would not be a Christian if not for his attacks on the stupidity I did and believed.

Wow, Crow. I hadn't heard your testimony before. This is really great.

The world wants to vomit when they turn on your typical "God is love" evangelistic shows on the t.v. They make God look like a whimp and Jesus as a sissy. Bob Enyart has more respect for God than to portray Him in this false manner. When one who hates God turns in to a mamby pamby, Christian show all he wants to do is change the channel and head for the nearest barf bag and you've lost them. But when you have a show like Bob's, they still might hate it but they get mad and stay tuned. You don't lose them. Countless homosexuals, sexually permiscuous, atheists, etc. have been saved under his ministry and they all say the same thing. They were glad somebody cared enough to let them know they were headed for hell. WHY should those engaging in such sin want to change when you make it comfortable for them? They have the best of both worlds. They are loved by the world and the jello Christians (Christians with no backbones) and all the while, really looking at Christians as fools for being so "open" and weak. God says:
Proverbs 27:25
Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed.

Ezekial 3:18
When I say to the wicked, "you shall surely die" and you give him no warning, nor speak to him of his wicked ways, that same man shall die in his iniquity but his blood I will require of your hand.


Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Matthew 24:9
....and you shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. (if everybody "loves" you, this may be reason for concern.)

Proverbs 11:20
Those who are of a perverse heart are an abomination to the Lord.

2 Chronicles 19:2
....shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?

Romans 12:9
Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
(It is hypocritical to "love" that which is evil.)

Our God is a wise God. He knows that there is less chance for a sinner to become saved when you baby him and you're not bold enough to tell him of his doom. People today are scared to death that not everybody will like them. They've compromised the gospel to satisfy their own selfishness. If all hate you because you speak truth yet God loves you and is pleased over this WHO CARES!!

[Crow]

Originally posted by Whispers

QUOTE---All of the nicey-nice people who tell him that Christ died for him and leave out the other part--that God says homosexuals should be put to death, and that they're vile and disgusting to God

Please can you quote scripture here. I would like to explore this further with you.

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders



Leviticus 18:22
'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

Leviticus 20:13
'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

those nice concillatory Christians are not helping that poor homo change his lifestyle. They are enablers. And they misrepresent God. They are either bait-and-switch salesmen, or so deceived in and of themselves that they simply do not know truth from lie.

Exactly the same could and regularly does get said about the Pastor and his followers. What would Jesus really think if he sat in on one of the Pastor's shows?

Jesus Christ was often blunt and offensive. He called people hypocrites, compared them to graves with a rotten corpse inside, called them dogs, etc. I don't think Jesus would have a problem with Bob's show. Now will you kindly show where Bob Enyart does not know the truth from a lie, or where he misrepresents God?

[Servo]

I think the liberals today love Christian TV. It makes Christians look like blithering idiots and wimps who only talk about love, and or MONEY. Plant a seed today!

Paul & Jan Crouch...I mean BLAHHHHH what is their deal? Have you ever seen Jan and one of her puppet shows?

Benny Hinn is a fraud and should be arrested.

Mike Murdock, now that is comedy.

Last weekend I turned on TBN and saw "Davey & Goliath". That is the best thing they have going for them. "Oh Daveeee...."

[Poly]

Originally posted by Shimei
I think the liberals today love Christian TV. It makes Christians look like blithering idiots and wimps who only talk about love, and or MONEY. Plant a seed today!

Paul & Jan Crouch...I mean BLAHHHHH what is their deal? Have you ever seen Jan and one of her puppet shows?

Benny Hinn is a fraud and should be arrested.

Mike Murdock, now that is comedy.

Last weekend I turned on TBN and saw "Davey & Goliath". That is the best thing they have going for them. "Oh Daveeee...."

I know what you mean. When I'm in the mood to sit down and watch a good comedy I turn it here.

[frugalmom]

Crow - thank you for sharing your testimony; I love hearing outcomes like this.

Regarding the phony fundraising televangelists - they make me sick. I've seen brother scambuck on there time and time again begging for money so he can "burn your debt". Firepot in front of him too, and a counter on the corner of the screen saying how many lines are open. Then they all go crazy clapping and singing when the lines are full. Never anything on how to get saved - just always using Jesus' name to try and make money. They are all crooks, and the worst part is they mislead unbelievers into thinking Christianity is phony like that.

[Poly]

Originally posted by frugalmom
Crow - thank you for sharing your testimony; I love hearing outcomes like this.

Regarding the phony fundraising televangelists - they make me sick. I've seen brother scambuck on there time and time again begging for money so he can "burn your debt". Firepot in front of him too, and a counter on the corner of the screen saying how many lines are open. Then they all go crazy clapping and singing when the lines are full. Never anything on how to get saved - just always using Jesus' name to try and make money. They are all crooks, and the worst part is they mislead unbelievers into thinking Christianity is phony like that.

[godrulz]

I am reading Ch. 1 of the PLOT from the internet. I will eventually buy the book. What is the one verse key he refers to? Which group of doctrinal beliefs does he believe in (10 on left or 10 on right...some are unclear and I might believe a mix)?

How many pages is the book?

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by godrulz
I am reading Ch. 1 of the PLOT from the internet. I will eventually buy the book. What is the one verse key he refers to? Which group of doctrinal beliefs does he believe in (10 on left or 10 on right...

Sorry, but the only way to find out is to read the book. Bob even wrote the book without a scripture index so people could not quickly look up Bob's conclusions. (I've got a scripture index to it. I had to create it myself). He also entitled his chapters with very obscure names so people who (for example) wanted to know Bob's opinion on water baptism would not have a clue which chapter it was in. They would have to read the entire book up to that chapter to find out.

How many pages is the book?

That I will divulge. It's around 300.

[wholearmor]

Originally posted by Whispers
Causing offence can help sometimes, I agree with you. However, if someone walks away from God because a pastor offended him, than we must question and look deeply into the intention of the act and whether we are actually causing an effect for good.

If someone stays in their sin because a pastor sugar-coats God and tells them God will love them anyway, then we must question and look deeply into the intention of the act and whether we are actually causing an effect for good.