[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Ben Masada

Paul, the Cuckoo Bird

Have you ever heard about the cuckoo bird? It is a gray European bird that, instinctively, lays its eggs in other bird's nests, as if it is unable to build a nest of its own from scratch. Its fledglings are usually more developed and strong enough to push out of the nest any possible domestic competitor for the food the adopted parents would bring home.

The cuckoo bird constitutes a perfect simile to the kind of man Paul was as a missionizer. Paul was never able to raise a church from scratch out of the Gentile population. His mission, since its very first station in Damascus and until its last in Rome, was to invade the Jewish synagogues and overturn them into Christian churches. (Acts 9:30) In Rome, since he could not freely walk around, he would invite the Jewish leaders to visit him in his house arresting condition to listen
to his gospel. (Acts 28:16,17)

The first nest Paul invaded and succeeded was in Antioch. After a whole year that he had laid his eggs, the disciples of the Jews started being called Christians. (Acts 11:26) The synagogue had been overturned into a Christian church. From then on, the chain was unbreakable. He went to the synagogues of Corinth. (Acts 18:1,4) From there, he proceeded throughout the country of Galatian and Phrygian. (Acts 18:23)

It happened that, to Galatia, a delegation from Judea had been sent to try to salvage the Galatian synagogue, and Paul became extremely upset to see that indeed many of the members were returning to the "other gospel," as he would, pejoratively, refer to the gospel of the Apostles. In his rage he would exclaim that any other gospel different from his, even if an angel had brought it down from Heaven, he would curse it or the preachers of such a gospel. (Gal. 1:6-9)

One day, as if he seemed to have had enough of the Jewish hostile reaction to his work in the Jewish synagogues, he declared in haste that, finnaly, he was turning to the Gentiles. (Acts 13:46) He was then in a Jewish synagogue of Antioch. (Acts 13:14) As he left the place he went to the Jewish synagogue of Iconium. (Acts 14:1) As any one can see, the Cuckoo bird could not change its nature. And Paul never changed even until death in Rome, where he tried to lay his eggs in the minds of the Roman Jews, although bound in chains. (Acts 28:16,17) The Cuckoo Paul could change his feathers and be whatever he fanced to be according to any circumstance, but he could never change the collors of his feathers.

Ben

The Judeans should have been the first to recognize Jesus as the long awaited messiah.

They however, did not.

Paul gave them the first opportunity to learn about the messiah, but when they rejected the messiah, Paul would go to the Gentiles, who much more readily accepted the messiah Jesus.

It is time you learned about the messiah Jesus.

and what he did for you.

oatmeal

[Ben Masada]

Originally Posted by seekinganswers

Then you don't know who Jesus was nor do you know his apostles. If the only testimony to them is given to us by those whom you cannot trust, reject Jesus already and be done with it. You need not mention him again. But don't in your arrogance pretend that your reconstructions of history are to be accepted as a valid testimony to the life and teachings of Jesus. Either the testimony we have is valid or we cannot know Jesus (and God, in his infinite wisdom, did not want us to know who he was).

Bearing false testimony (no matter how well-intended you might feel it to be) is still a violation of Torah. So stop pretending to know what happened 2000 years ago and accept that the only witnesses we have to these things are witnesses you cannot trust. You do not know who Jesus was nor can you know him (because the faithful testimony to his life has been lost on you).

I for my part trust these witnesses and so I will accept who Jesus is as it has been told to me by them. I recognize that there is an aspect of faith to my confession (perhaps an even blind faith). Nothing about the apostles nor their scribes merits any of my trust; especially if, as their testimony affirms, all of the apostles abandoned Jesus at his time of greatest need. If Jesus really was who they say he was then their own testimony condemns them (because they betrayed him all the same). However, as I hear the teachings of Jesus concerning the meaning of Tanak preserved by their witness, it rings true with God's revelation in every way. Can it be that God, in his infinite wisdom, chose the lowly and despised of his people and of this world to put to shame those who in their arrogant idolatry had exalted themselves above God? Could it be that what you see as faithlessness to Judaism is the only true affirmation of it?

Ben, though you claim that the Jews of today have learned from the errors of their ancestors, I have my doubts about that statement. And if Israel is able to rebuild their temple in our day I have no doubt that they will abuse it in the same way their ancestors did long ago. You may claim to be "enlightened," Ben, but all I see in that claim is the same human insistence that we know better than God how to navigate this world and to find life in ourselves.

Peace,
Michael

I know who Jesus was. I can tell you who Jesus was and you have no choince but to agree with me. If you don't, you are the one in trouble and not I. Jesus was a loyal Jewish man, whose Faith was Judaism. There! Agree with me or not? So, as I said above, you have no choice but to. Evidence that he was a loyal Jew? Read Mat. 5:17-19. It says in there that he came to confirm Judaism down to the letter. Judaism here is meant the Law and the Prophets. Agree with me or not? Therefore, you are the one who should cease to mention him. He was not a Christian. Am I wrong?

Ben

[Ben Masada]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

The Judeans should have been the first to recognize Jesus as the long awaited messiah.

They however, did not.

Paul gave them the first opportunity to learn about the messiah, but when they rejected the messiah, Paul would go to the Gentiles, who much more readily accepted the messiah Jesus.

It is time you learned about the messiah Jesus. and what he did for you.

Yes, but Jesus was not the Messiah. Why? Because the Messiah cannot be an individual but the collective in the People of Israel. The Messiah had returned from Babylon. That's the long awaited Messiah. The individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever according to Jeremiah 31:35-37.

Messiah in Hebrew means the "Anointed One of the Lord." If you read Habakkut 3:13, "The Lord comes forth to save His People; to save His Anointed One." That's when the exile in Babylon was over after 70 years and the Lord came forth and saved His Messiah.

Ben