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It's a stretch to say that Christ never claimed deity, especially when you examine what led him to the cross in the first place. People wanted him dead because he claimed to be God. So why wouldn't Jesus explicitly say, "I am not God."
He was God in the beginning. When He took on human flesh, He took on human nature while still keeping His divine nature. Because He was born of a woman He is called Son of Man. Because He was God in the beginning, He is called the Son of God. God visiting man.... Psalm 8:4 KJV Heb. 2:6 KJV
Hebrews 2:15-17 KJV And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
God Almighty took on humanity and "provided himself a Lamb."
Gen. 22:8 KJV And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
Go back to Hebrews 1. 1
Christ was an image of God, not god. This spirit image was put into the body of Jesus. He was in all ways a man. But the godly image spirit was IN him. I am seeing verses different now. When he said I AM, he was claiming deity. But of the created kind. For he has a God.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Christ was an image of God, not god. This spirit image was put into the body of Jesus. He was in all ways a man. But the godly image spirit was IN him. I am seeing verses different now. When he said I AM, he was claiming deity. But of the created kind. For he has a God.
That isn't what it says in the NASB and NIV. Strong's concordance defines image as in the KJV as an exact copy.
Hebrews 1:2-3
2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
That isn't what it says in the NASB and NIV. Strong's concordance defines image as in the KJV as an exact copy.
Hebrews 1:2-3
2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Define:
He is the radiance of his glory and the exact representation of his nature.
He is the image of his God, not God. God is Spirit, Jesus had a copy of that spirit. That way he is called a form of God. He has a God, yet he is godlike. That is why folks get confused. He is a created god, but his father is the true God.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Define:
He is the radiance of his glory and the exact representation of his nature.
He is the image of his God, not God. God is Spirit, Jesus had a copy of that spirit. That way he is called a form of God. He has a God, yet he is godlike. That is why folks get confused. He is a created god, but his father is the true God.
Quite simply, He is as the Father is.
If Jesus is a created god then worshiping Him (and Jesus received worship) is a violation of the first commandment of which Jesus says is the greatest commandment. This doesn't make sense.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose.
If Jesus is a created god then worshiping Him (and Jesus received worship) is a violation of the first commandment of which Jesus says is the greatest commandment. This doesn't make sense.
My friend, your changing the words you posted. I just showed you the same words.
Further study would take you to Col 1:15-19. All things were created THROUGH CHrist, by his God.
See Eph 3:9 also
2 Cor 5:19 tells you thatGod was IN Jesus, not that Jesus is God.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
If Jesus is a created god then worshiping Him (and Jesus received worship) is a violation of the first commandment of which Jesus says is the greatest commandment. This doesn't make sense.
I worry more about offending God than any thing else. This is written words he gave us. Without Jesus we would never understand who God is. He is the reflection of the God that sent him. This is why we prey to the father in Jesus's name. God has elevaded Jesus to Lord. God says every knees will bow to him. Why then would he take offense?
Peace brother
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
It's a stretch to say that Christ never claimed deity, especially when you examine what led him to the cross in the first place. People wanted him dead because he claimed to be God. So why wouldn't Jesus explicitly say, "I am not God."
He only spoke Truth. He didn't ever say He was only a "created spirit image" either, yet some swear that's the case. The Jews knew exactly what Jesus was saying and they crucified Him for it.
John 10:30-33 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
I do not see it that way Apple. The spirit is God or part of God not a separate being.
Remember God is Spirit. We relate to him as the Father. So I only have one God.
I also have a godlike Lord, his son. But even though God made him Lord, he says to worship his father's the only God. That is the only difference between you and me.
Peace
So...
When you say God the Father and God the Spirit, you actually mean one God.
But...when Trinitarians say God the Father and God the Spirit it somehow means two Gods?
I'll address Heb. again, but this (in yellow) has caught my attention.
Christ was an image of God, not god. This spirit image was put into the body of Jesus. He was in all ways a man. But the godly image spirit was IN him. I am seeing verses different now. When he said I AM, he was claiming deity. But of the created kind. For he has a God.
There is no such thing as a created deity, unless you create one in your own mind...which you certainly HAVE done. Mary's son had a God, and his lineage goes back to Adam. Mary's egg was fertilized by the Holy Ghost, making Him God's Son. He wasn't created, He was born. If you now admit that Jesus was claiming deity by saying, I AM, then you should believe Him rather than continuing to push false doctrine.
John's Gospel which reveals Jesus' divine nature says it best. I'm not sure how much clearer this can be.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I AM the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I AM the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life
John 10:9 I AM the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 10:11 I AM the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I AM the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 15:1 I AM the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
John 8:56-59 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
There is no such thing as a created deity, unless you create one in your own mind...which you certainly HAVE done. Mary's son had a God, and his lineage goes back to Adam. Mary's egg was fertilized by the Holy Ghost, making Him God's Son. He wasn't created, He was born. If you now admit that Jesus was claiming deity by saying, I AM, then you should believe Him rather than continuing to push false doctrine.
John's Gospel which reveals Jesus' divine nature says it best. I'm not sure how much clearer this can be.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I AM the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I AM the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life
John 10:9 I AM the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
John 10:11 I AM the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I AM the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I AM the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 15:1 I AM the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
John 8:56-59 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Dear friend, the human lineage of Jesus has nothing to do with the spiritual image of God. The body is man, the spirit is God.
God being Spirit made another spirit, a copy of himself. That is what he used to create, that is what he put in Jesus.
Abaham knew that some day God would sent this spirit into his son as a man. Jesus was saying that Abraham knew that. He was also saying the he exsisted feroe he was born. Jesus was 33 when he died, the spirit was from the beginning with God. It is a form of God.
Look at John 1, ...was with God, was God.
However he is the created God, the image spirit that God first created. The firstborn of all creation.
Heb 1:2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
He is a FORM of God, an image of God.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Peace my friend
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
My friend, your changing the words you posted. I just showed you the same words.
Further study would take you to Col 1:15-19. All things were created THROUGH CHrist, by his God.
See Eph 3:9 also
2 Cor 5:19 tells you thatGod was IN Jesus, not that Jesus is God.
This is obviously a translation problem...I'm putting up three different versions. We see IN HIM, BY HIM, THROUGH HIM, and FOR HIM. That's pretty all inclusive.
Colossians 1:16 KJV Col. 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Eph. 3:9 KJV Eph. 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Colossians 1:16 (Young's Literal Translation)
16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Ephesians 3:9 (Young's Literal Translation)
9and to cause all to see what [is] the fellowship of the secret that hath been hid from the ages in God, who the all things did create by Jesus Christ,
Dear friend, the human lineage of Jesus has nothing to do with the spiritual image of God. The body is man, the spirit is God.
God being Spirit made another spirit, a copy of himself. That is what he used to create, that is what he put in Jesus.
Abaham knew that some day God would sent this spirit into his son as a man. Jesus was saying that Abraham knew that. He was also saying the he exsisted feroe he was born. Jesus was 33 when he died, the spirit was from the beginning with God. It is a form of God.
Look at John 1, ...was with God, was God.
However he is the created God, the image spirit that God first created. The firstborn of all creation.
Heb 1:2 hath at the end of these days spoken unto us in his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, through whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 who being the effulgence of his glory, and the very image of his substance, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification of sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
He is a FORM of God, an image of God.
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Peace my friend
Why in the world would God need to make another spirit copy of Himself when He is Spirit already? Vain imaginations once again!
The "firstborn" of all creation does not say He was created.
I'm surprised, after all your years of study you don't know what this verse is saying.
Look at it in Young's and see if you remember how you once said it can mean preeminence.
Col.1 15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation,
16 because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
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